Duh, Protools confuses me

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Electro-Voice 664
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Duh, Protools confuses me

Post by Electro-Voice 664 » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:20 am

I plan on buying a protools set up. Le of some sort probably. (Never used a DAW) I also plan on getting some multi-channel AD/DA like Motu or Apogee (w/out preamps).
Question: When using the protools box simple to access the software, is there any advantage to using the 002 vs. an Mbox or any other version? I UTFSF but I?m still utterly confused. Any reason (besides more inputs/outputs) to get the 002 vs. the Mbox or some other small thing. Quality isn?t an issue if you don?t even use the item right, so if I bought some nice 8 channel AD/DA and used some shit protools box simply for the software it shouldn?t really matter right? Or am I missing something? Any help would be great!
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Post by bannerj » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:08 pm

I wouldn't do the mbox or the 002 if you are going to use other pres. Check out the stand alone version. I think it is called m-powered or something like that?

There may be sonic drawback to that however. I don't know...

I don't think there should be any sonic difference between LE on an mbox or an 002 if you aren't talking about converters and pres.

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Post by Electro-Voice 664 » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:44 pm

bannerj wrote:I wouldn't do the mbox or the 002 if you are going to use other pres. Check out the stand alone version. I think it is called m-powered or something like that?

There may be sonic drawback to that however. I don't know...

I don't think there should be any sonic difference between LE on an mbox or an 002 if you aren't talking about converters and pres.
m-powered will allow protools use minus the mic pre?
I have good outboard pres, so I want to avoid spending money on soso preamps. Thanks, I'll search for m-powered stuff.
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Post by seaneldon » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:54 pm

if you go with M-Powered, you have to settle for the "so-so" M-Audio interfaces.

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Post by bannerj » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:01 pm

so m-powered means it is proprietary to m-aduio interfaces? that is not an improvement

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Post by Electro-Voice 664 » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:14 pm

Man, I just looked at the m-powered website :?
Any suggestions, I want like 16 analog in/outs, protools LE and to use my preamps. But it sounds like the m-powered stuff is gonna be soso. Right now I use the Alesis HD24 and I could incorporate that, but I was just thinking about starting from scratch. Thoughts?...thanks BTW
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Post by ryangeller » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:31 pm

if you want more than 2 ins and outs you need to go for a digi001 or digi002rack.

i think you can go up to 18 ins and outs @ 48k (using converters of course for the 10 digital ins and outs). but even w/ this setup- you're limited to using the digi converters for the 8 analog ins and outs.. and then your converters will pick up the rest.

the mbox will only allow you to access 2 ins and outs (digital or analog) at one time, and you said that you needed more..

if you're thinking about going PT HD, you could get some apogee front end and the X-HD card and not have to get any digi hardware other than the core card... otherwise you're stuck w/ the digi002rack or 001 (on an older system).

--ryan

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Post by joel hamilton » Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:54 pm

I have mixed things tracked entirely on an LE system, based around an 002r.
With the 002 you will have the option for some really good conversion made by a third party. You would implement this by going through the lightpipe interface.

That would give you 16 I/O and via spdif, with something appropriate, you could get two more channels of really good converter.

That means you would have 10 really great inputs during tracking, and then 8 more perfectly decent inputs on the 002r.

I have mixed things, as I said, tracked with this type of setup and it really works well. Tracking the drums through apogee converters, then doing all the critical overdubs through the apogee as well. Great sounding tracks, for (relative to my HD3 accel rig) very little money.

This is a very subjective statement, so take it with a grain of salt....
Using an outboard clock source can also make a big difference as far as overall depth and presence, and "clarity" across many individual tracks.

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Post by standup » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:28 pm

Has anybody used a MOTU 828 in conjunction with an 002r? Is there some way to get the lightpipe out of the 828 into the 002r without simultaneously running PT and DP? Musing on this possibility, but not sure how in the hell it would work.

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Post by Professor » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:05 pm

MOTU hardware only works with MOTU software and doesn't play well with others.
ProTools software requires some form of ProTools hardware made by Digi or M-Audio (they purchased M-A last year) but PT generally plays well with others.
The interface is there to get audio into and out of the machine, it's not just like a dongle that needs to be present for the system to work, so you're going to have to look into an interface that can move the number of tracks you want. They aren't trying to screw anybody by insisting on their own hardware, they are just ensuring that the software code will work predictably with the interfaces. If you want an upgraded signal path, then simply get something that will talk to the light-pipe input on an 002r. An Apogee or Mytek or Lynx would certainly be a possible upgrade, but I highly doubt that a MOTU 828 is going to be substantially different than the 002 - I mean I've not used either, but they are similar products at a similar price point, so I really doubt that the 002 would be spectacularly bad while the MOTU is spectacularly great or vice-versa. I'd bet the differences are mathematically insignificant.

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Post by JGriffin » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:08 pm

bannerj wrote:so m-powered means it is proprietary to m-aduio interfaces? that is not an improvement

It's not meant to be.

It's meant to be a slightly cheaper way to get into ProTools, and is probably also a way to get people who use other software than ProTools, and have M-Audio interfaces, to switch to ProTools 'cause now they can do so without having to buy a new sound interface.
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Post by The Gibbon » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:34 pm

I bought the M-Audio Delta 1010 like 5 years ago because I couldn't afford to get into Pro Tools with an 888 or a 192...the 1010 came bundled with Vegas for like $500... Vegas worked, but I wanted to get into Pro-Tools so when the M-Powered came out it was easy to afford the switch. For the price, I like my 1010...actually I'd like another one...Runs great on my PC...I can run Pro-Tools, Vegas/Sound Forge, Sonar...no problems...I've done alot of projects with it, with really nice results! Remember, a talented recordist can make a great recording with a 4-track and a 57! However, I sure would like a G5...a 192...Digi-Pre...someday, soon I hope...

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Post by JGriffin » Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:53 pm

The Gibbon wrote:I bought the M-Audio Delta 1010 like 5 years ago because I couldn't afford to get into Pro Tools with an 888 or a 192...the 1010 came bundled with Vegas for like $500... Vegas worked, but I wanted to get into Pro-Tools so when the M-Powered came out it was easy to afford the switch. For the price, I like my 1010...actually I'd like another one...Runs great on my PC...I can run Pro-Tools, Vegas/Sound Forge, Sonar...no problems...I've done alot of projects with it, with really nice results! Remember, a talented recordist can make a great recording with a 4-track and a 57! However, I sure would like a G5...a 192...Digi-Pre...someday, soon I hope...
I also have a 1010 and love it a bunch. Have one at work as well, I've always been happy with recordings I've made with it...or if I wasn't happy, it wasn't because of the 1010!
"Jeweller, you've failed. Jeweller."

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Post by 3db@1K » Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:17 pm

joel hamilton wrote:I have mixed things tracked entirely on an LE system, based around an 002r.
With the 002 you will have the option for some really good conversion made by a third party. You would implement this by going through the lightpipe interface.

That would give you 16 I/O and via spdif, with something appropriate, you could get two more channels of really good converter.

That means you would have 10 really great inputs during tracking, and then 8 more perfectly decent inputs on the 002r.

I have mixed things, as I said, tracked with this type of setup and it really works well. Tracking the drums through apogee converters, then doing all the critical overdubs through the apogee as well. Great sounding tracks, for (relative to my HD3 accel rig) very little money.

This is a very subjective statement, so take it with a grain of salt....
Using an outboard clock source can also make a big difference as far as overall depth and presence, and "clarity" across many individual tracks.

Have fun. Make it great.
How would you be clocking a 002 with the apogee?

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Post by Professor » Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:50 pm

3db@1K wrote:How would you be clocking a 002 with the apogee?
Do you mean because there is no external clock input?

If you plug a digital signal into a digital input on the 002 then you can (and indeed you must) tell ProTools to use the clock arriving at that digital input as its clock source (Session Setup window, I believe). Even if you are not utilizing the converters in the Apogee, you could still have it connected to the S/PDIF input and delivering a word clock signal to that port to clock the system there. Indeed, even if you have a source that doesn't have a "clock" output, simply connecting a digital audio output to an input on another device will deliver a clock signal.

-Jeremy

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