What Mic Preamps SHOULDN'T I Buy??

[overseer]

Ok, well this seems to be the appropriate place to post this quandry.

I've been discussing purchasing a new interface for my recording comp. over in the 2 M-Audio Delta 44's vs Delta 1010 PCI thread. As the discussion developed the fact that I need pre's has come up. So I hopped over to this thread and have read thru it. I am on a tight budget, so I am looking for a pre setup that's gonna be the best for $100 - $150 or cheaper.

Also, a setup question or 2. I'm a real novice at all this, so ya'll don't laugh too hard at this.

When using a mic pre, it goes in line between the mic and the console correct? Also, when recording say drums, do I need a mic pre for every mic on the kit?

[weatherbox]

right... mic XLR is to the pre, then wire the pre into a 1/4" line in on the console. You need a preamp for every mic, but not an outboard pre - I'd assume your console has preamps in it that will work.

[overseer]

My console is a Behringer Eurodesk MX3282A and the spec sheet claims it has "Ultra-low noise discrete mic pre-amps w/48 V phantom power & switchable low cut filter."

You're probably going to want one or two channels of better preamlification that what's on the Berhinger. The Behringer is pretty bargain basement and the pre's can be harsh.

That is what overnight had to say about it on the other thread. Thoughts anybody?

[weatherbox]

Hmm. Never used a Behringer, but haven't heard nice things. If you need a lot of preamp channels as well as a mixer, might be worthwhile to swap that Behringer for a Mackie VLZ. Those pres aren't anything that'll be spoken about in reverent tones, but they're serviceable and IMO comparable to most budget-level preamps I've tried. Heck, I thought they sounded a lot better than the DBX and Focusrite Penta I mentioned earlier in this thread. As a plus, the VLZ makes a nice makeshift PA mixer for the practice space.

[overseer]

Yeah I've heard good/bad about the behringer line of products, but truthfully I haven't had any probs with the board and I'm not looking to upgrade it anytime soon. I will say this tho, I would love to have a nice Mackie board. I've had a few opportunities to turn the knobs on some of the mackie boards and I do like'em.

When it comes to pre's tho, would I be better off with something like
SMPro Audio PR4v 4-Channel Preamp
M-Audio Audio Buddy
OR
SMPro Audio PR8 8-Channel Mic Preamp
Nady PRA-8 Mic Preamp
???

[weatherbox]

I got an Audio Buddy for a friend once as he had nothing to demo songs with. It works, and provides 48v, but really wasn't impressed with the sound, even for what it is. Like I said, no experience here with the Behringer, but I'd have a hard time believing the Audio Buddy would be much of a step up - it's not that it was bad, but it was *noisy*. I'd think if it more as a first-time "I need a preamp" preamp than something you'd upgrade to.

I dunno - I still say keep an eye out for used 1202VLZs... not as in "upgrade, now!" but just be watching in case you can score one super cheap... they go for not a lot of cash and would give you a decent, sturdy mixer with 4 perfectly usable preamps (and plenty more line-ins for external pres) for not a lot of cash. I only use mine for scratch track summing and band practice, but it's a good little unit and I'd give it a big thumbs up for people on a budget or just starting out.

[overseer]

Thanks weatherbox I will keep that in mind.

[weatherbox]

I'm persistent like that. Sorry.

[junkstar]

I'll second the Aphex recommendation. I have two 107's and they are clean and responsive as compared to my fairly worthless ART TPS II and my confusingly bland Focusrite Trak Master. On the low end, I do kind of dig my Studio Projects VTB1, but it is not a go-to as are the Aphex strips.

[8th_note]

When using a mic pre, it goes in line between the mic and the console correct?

I've got a similar setup to what you're trying to get to, Overseer, so I guess I'll finally chime in.

First, no matter which pre you buy, definitely try it plugged directly into the Delta box and bypass your mixer. I have a Mackie 1642 VLZ and after trying it both ways I never plug the pre into the Mackie. Big difference in sound quality going straight into the card. My guess is that you would see the same thing with your Berry mixer.

Second, I have several mid level pres and the two I recommend are the Electro Harmonix 12AY7 and the ART MPA Gold. The ART is a dual channel but if you can spring for about $280 it's a great sounding pre for the price. Both pres are much more detailed and 3 dimensional than my Mackie.

Third, I think you made the right decision going with the 1010. I have a Delta 66 and a 1010 allowing me to record 12 channels and I've found this to be an excellent combination. I can't say enough good about the 1010. It's easy to use and the better the equipment I plug into it, the better it sounds.

[Catoogie]

I'd personally stay away from avalon mic pre's...You're paying for external looks and advertising and not so much mic pre

Oh yeah? I think Craig Street feels slightly differently about Avalon mic pres. He's got a pretty good track record making great sounding records, don't ya think?

We use dynamic mics for vocals and send them into a really great mic pre like an Avalon, in case it's a keeper vocal.

[pieter]

It's on the high side of your budget, but since someone else mentioned it, why not look at the ubiquitously praised Sytek? You'll get FOUR outstanding channels, and two with the Burr-Brown opamps, which do impart a subtle glow or something fancy sounding (trying not to say "warmth"), but all four channels are great.

I dare say that nothing will sound bad through them. If it does, it's not the pre's fault. Yes, other pres will sound more rock and roll, others will have more color or a stronger signature, but on a well limited budget, you'd be hard pressed to find a better bargain than about $225 per channel of really nice sounding pres. There's also enough gain to use ribbons if you decide to go down that path later.

I use mine all the time. I use the Great River even more, and the Brick sometimes, and sometimes the built-in pres on the Allen & Heath Saber + mixer.

Do I see a new business model emerging in this thread? Private, custom shootouts?

[ChrisCo]

Red Rockets Glare and I are going to be running through his set-up of Mic Pres so I can sample the Aphex 207 (and other gear) against my Behringer VX2496 (which I'm not anticipating being worth a shit, but who knows). I'll see if we can create a tidy log of what was used and what the results were and possibly run up some photos of the session.

Pieter, I wouldn't mind running through a Systek, I'm just looking for a budget preamp that I'm not going to want to trade very quickly. The Behringer worked in a pinch, but I know there's WAAAAAY better stuff out there, so I'm looking to start midshelf this time. I'll look into the Systek. Is there a model name to look for?

[thearnicasync]

MPX-4?

In any case, you won't need the model, there's only one sytek four channel pre out there. Do a search for sytek.

The sytek is about as good as it gets for bang for your buck, unelss you want to get a soldering iron and build stuff. It'll hold its used value well...lots of great engineers use them. Honestly, I think you'd get more value and the resale is great...they're never posted used for long, they sell quick, if you keep them in decent shape. Used they go from $650-750.

Let the flaming begin, but I think the Mackie Onyx preams are also great. THAT's cheap. Around $500 for four channels and a mixer for your home daw setup....



kb

[thearnicasync]

Here ya go:
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=33389