Vinyl Pressing Plant Recommendations?

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Cellotron
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Post by Cellotron » Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:53 pm

trodden wrote: I"m curious to why the 45 sounds better. Bigger grooves right?
.
Well - groove width and depth should only change with level or phase differences - so if we're talking the same program transferred at the same level this won't make a difference as to getting "Bigger grooves." However - with a program that was crammed onto to a single 33 -1/3 side when divided into 2 45rpm sides can generally get the cutting engineer a little wriggle room to either cut a little louder or to keep the side from using all available space - as the very inner diameters of a record always are a little more distorted sounding than the outer diameters because of increased tracing distortion on the inner areas.
Also in general with a 45 the higher rotation speed reduces tracing errors and also rumble - which should allow for a record that playbacks with a little less distortion on the highs and cleaner on the very bottom.

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trodden
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Post by trodden » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:17 am

Hell yeah!

Image

Image

Image

and if these sound as good as the test pressings,
then i'm giving Pirates Press an A+

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Post by Mark Alan Miller » Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:00 pm

That looks beautiful!
he took a duck in the face at two and hundred fifty knots.

http://www.radio-valkyrie.com/ao/aoindex.htm - download the new record (free is an option!) or get it on CD.

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Post by tateeskew » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:51 pm

trodden wrote:Hell yeah!

and if these sound as good as the test pressings,
then i'm giving Pirates Press an A+
so trodd...how do they sound?

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trodden
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Post by trodden » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:51 pm

formzero wrote:
trodden wrote:Hell yeah!

and if these sound as good as the test pressings,
then i'm giving Pirates Press an A+
so trodd...how do they sound?
thuper duper!

one thing though, there's a bit of "debris" on the records i'm guessing from when they cut the vinyl into circle form. A soft rage cleans it off but it seems to stick to the paper sleeve via static electricity.

Sounds and looks great though!

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Post by joelpatterson » Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:20 pm

"A soft rage." you are a thoroughly modern guy, Bran.
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Post by BrownSound » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:18 pm

Oops, I completely forgot to report back on this thread!

I went with 180 gram black vinyl through Pirates Press/GZ and I couldn't be happier with the results. First off, these records are HEAVY. Pulling it out of the sleeve gives me that giddy feeling inside. More importantly, they sound awesome. The low end is more defined than I have ever heard it (and I mixed the record!) The full color labels look great, custom matrix etching is in a computer font rather than handwriting style, and every detail down to the shipping boxes and freight was well executed.

I will definitely be giving them repeat business in the future.

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Re: Vinyl Pressing Plant Recommendations?

Post by zktpro » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:26 pm

I use recordpressing.com for all my vinyl needs. They do the highest quality pressing of any vinyl out there, they have great prices, and they always take care of me. Plus their vinyl jackets are off the hook! They will do basicaly anything you need and get it done right. I tried going to piratsspress but when I did a search for some need information I found out there were not even registered as a real buisness... I can't work with people who are not legit.


BrownSound wrote:Wasn't sure which category to post this in...

I intended on using United Pressing for my band's upcoming LP. The recording is 24 bit and I would like to send it to the pressing plant as 24 bit data files rather than 16 bit CD audio.

Unfortunately, I just learned that United does not accept 24 bit files. Does anyone know of a pressing plant who does? Or even just a pressing plant that you've had a great experience with?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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Post by bobbydj » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:25 am

joelpatterson wrote:"A soft rage." you are a thoroughly modern guy, Bran.
Bran??? Wtf. As if he wasn't getting enough shit with brandy.
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Post by bobbydj » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:26 am

trodden wrote:and if these sound as good as the test pressings,
then i'm giving Pirates Press an A+
Sounds ace to me. If they were in europe I'd definitely use them.
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trodden
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Post by trodden » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:41 am

bobbydj wrote:
trodden wrote:and if these sound as good as the test pressings,
then i'm giving Pirates Press an A+
Sounds ace to me. If they were in europe I'd definitely use them.
well they use a pressing plant in the czech republic actually. I think recordpressing.com , who ztkpro might use the same plant as well. I've heard some RUMORS though that the DMM method (direct metal mastering) which the czech plant does may result in lack of depth and imaging/fidelity. My turntable isn't that great, so you know, i don't really hear anything "bad" so this rumor could be just the same as directional mic cables and other "snake oil" bs that seems so prevelent in the audio world. Besides the gritty debris on the records, which hadn't effected the playing of the record, they were quite nice to work with. nice people, great customer service.

Bran-dy.

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Post by He Who Records Voices » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:09 pm

Being an admitted audiophile geek, I would say RTI, as they can do 100% analog (or, I'm sure, take your 24 bit files and do them justice), and while some may jeer at their 180 or 200 gram pressings as being marketing bunk, I will say that all the Classsic Records reissues I have (Led Zep, Roy Orbison, CSNY, Neil Young, etc.) sound phenominal on my vinyl rig. Then again, those records were all from the analog sources, and mastered with great care by people like Bernie Grundman, which of course ain't gonna happpen with an indie release. Still, the Matador stuff/Thrill Jockey/Drag City stuff from RTI seems quite good.

In regards to the place in Brooklyn mentioned, I'm very curious about them myself, and would love to pay a visit to their place sometime when I get the chance, as I may be doing my own vinyl thing at some point, and also want to have a place that can deal with analog or 24/96.

Also, in regard to colored vinyl, yeah, most of it can wear faster, as I can attest to my White Stripes "Elephant" pressings, the US fun colored version becoming noisey after just a few spins, unlike a UK black vinyl version I picked up in Japan. However, famous cutter Stan Ricker once said that colored vinyl could, if it was the right quality, sound as good as black vinyl. The problem is that all the indie rock colored records in that solid color we all know. It wears very quickly. However, the more heavy duty translucent vinyl can sound very good. I can confirm this from an original first Japanese pressing of "Revolver" in heavy translucent red vinyl, as well as a 1982 Japanese mono pressing of "The Beatles" (white album), both those sound AMAZING, are the best pressings I have listened to next to the late 70s UK Blue Box. Also, Fantasy Records put out pressings in heavy translucent blue and red in the 60s (for mono and stereo pressings), and those are supposed to sound fantastic. The problem would be to A) find a pressing plant that can do that sort of quality and B) the cost of doing so, if you can have it done.

Like, the new Flaming Lips album, you can get it in colored vinyl for cheaper than the black vinyl pressings! I believe it's because the black vinyl version is from Europe, and on better quality vinyl. Another thing I was told (I believe by Ray Janos, a NYC vinyl cutter) is that the quality of European vinyl is better because they were allowed to make their vinyl more pure (EPA laws restrict that here in the USA.)

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Post by trodden » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:14 pm

Hewhorecordsvoice-

cool, you seem to know quite a bit about this, thanks for all the info. Do you have any thoughts on the DMM (direct metal mastering) pro or cons in regards to audio quality. I know it cheaper to do, but more worried about the sound of it rather than the price.

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Post by He Who Records Voices » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:18 pm

I will admit, though, that the colored vinyl displayed in the photo above looks cool!

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Post by He Who Records Voices » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:39 pm

Here is the deal, from what I have read in the vinly asylum at audioasylum.com (where I post as Mark Maloof, why I chose the goofy "He who records voices" moniker here I dunno. Well, it is what I do for a living....) Also, at remastering engineer Steve Hoffman's site (stevehoffman.tv). DMM results in more high frequency info, and the potential for quicker transients. However, some folks find DMM records sound "bright". I know some folks who hate DMM, esp. reissues Blue Note did in DMM (tough I think early digital crap had something to do with that as well.) Also, I have read that music with extreme bass (think dance, or super heavy industrial/metal) may cause the stylus to skip out of the groove!

Ok, here is something I founnd <http://www.dccblowout.com/showpages.asp?pid=1130> And if you don't want to read the whole thing (one person's opinion, but it is interesting), here is that person's take on DMM:

"What is DMM Mastering? ? "With Direct Metal Mastering, the groove is cut directly in copper metal. High-frequency loss, distortion and pre-echo associated with conventional lacquer mastering are eliminated and transient response is greatly improved. DMM record pressing sound brighter, cleaner, more detailed, with 15% more playing time than with lacquer technology. Stampers are plated directly from the DMM Copper Master, eliminating two of the three plating steps required for lacquers."

Sounds good, right? No it doesn?t sound good. DMM mostly makes records that sound like CDs. Brighter, cleaner and more detailed are what CDs do, at the expense of warmer, richer, sweeter and more tonally correct. I avoid DMM records like the plague. Try some DMM Blue Notes if you want to hear some of the worst sound ever committed to vinyl.

"What is DMM Mastering? ? "With Direct Metal Mastering, the groove is cut directly in copper metal. High-frequency loss, distortion and pre-echo associated with conventional lacquer mastering are eliminated and transient response is greatly improved. DMM record pressing sound brighter, cleaner, more detailed, with 15% more playing time than with lacquer technology. Stampers are plated directly from the DMM Copper Master, eliminating two of the three plating steps required for lacquers."

Sounds good, right? No it doesn?t sound good. DMM mostly makes records that sound like CDs. Brighter, cleaner and more detailed are what CDs do, at the expense of warmer, richer, sweeter and more tonally correct. I avoid DMM records like the plague. Try some DMM Blue Notes if you want to hear some of the worst sound ever committed to vinyl.

I also happen to know of a few recordings that were originally Direct Metal Mastered, then reissued, and made the second time around with lacquer cutting equipment. Those are the copies to buy! They KILL the DMM versions. Just another good reason not to be fooled by the idea that "original is better". Original badly mastered records can?t compete with later properly mastered records. This seems obvious on its face, but I talk to audiophiles and record collectors all the time who find this difficult to understand. What is there to think about? Just play the record and listen. My question is, if you can?t tell a good record from a bad one, why collect records at all?"

I have one of thos Blue Note DMMs he mentions, and it sounds AWFUL! He is also right about a properly mastered and cut record sounding better than a "first pressing" if that first press was not done right, or the reissue had greater care taken with it. A friend and I compared a first pressing of Led Zepps' third LP with the Classic Records reissue, and thought the original sounded thin/lacking in body in comparison.

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