i need recommendations for building a small home studio

[robosaurus]

I'm setting a budget of about $3,000-$4,000

I have a mac G4 and am looking for any recommendations for the following

-interface (2 channels)
-software
-mic's
-mic pre's
-compressor
-anything else that seems necessary

wish i could afford an analog setup

I would appreciate any advice anyone could give me

thank you

[kayagum]

Welcome to the board!

Definitely use the search feature (top of the page) to search on any of the items you listed. There's a huge wealth of information, and much of it is better than any other site on the web.

Other helpful souls will probably chime in here too. Best of luck!

You may want to describe who or what you're trying to record- it will help narrow the suggestions.

[John Jeffers]

$3-4K won't get you very far. Hell, you can spend more than that on one really great condenser mic. I've spent more than 10 times that amount over the years, and there are still lots of things I want. But of course, you have to start somewhere. The thing is, try to buy stuff that you'll want to keep instead of going thru the continuous upgrade cycle that many people seem to get stuck in. Resale on most music gear is poor, so you'll lose a lot of money if you buy low-end now and upgrade later.

BTW, my point of view is based on being in it for the long haul. If you're not sure you're going to be doing this in two years, then I wouldn't spend vast amounts of money. But if you're planning on recording as a business or even a long-term hobby, good investments will pay off--both in terms of actual dollars saved, and quality of recordings.

[sparky]

What do you want to record? I'm only posting here to offer a contrary opinion to the previous poster: there's a lot of cheap crap out there that you can make sound remarkably cool, both in a traditional Hi-Fi sense and in a normal sense.

You already have a mac, that's the most expensive thing, and if you're only looking for two channels of input, I'm guessing you're not recording bands. If you pick up one of those two-channel ProTools deals (don't remember what it's called), you'll have a (not-that-good) preamp, I/O, and software covered for <$1k. Much less. My roommate has one of these. The preamp isn't too good but the rest of it works great.

After that, you can pick up a couple mics (look for the MXL/Marshall 990, 991, etc; Studio Projects B1, C1, AT2020, and dynamics like shure sm57, 58). If you got a Studio Projects B1 and an SM57, that'd set you back about $150 and you'd be able to cover a lot of ground.

If you are tracking something that needs to be compressed before it hits the interface, like a bass guitar or something, check out the FMR Audio RNC. I've never used it, but people say it's pretty good and it's really inexpensive.

My advice would be to get the interface, software and at least one microphone, and don't by the other stuff until you know why you are buying it, like until you know exactly what you can't do without the compressor you want. Specifically on the dynamics-management issue, if you have any experience with old cheap crap like cassette four tracks, the amount of dynamic range available to you in a computer will absolutely BLOW YOUR MIND! It's insane. You don't have to record everything bouncing off (digital) zero. In fact, you can't. This has been a hard habit for me to break. But you can record things at much lower input levels and then use plug-ins to reduce their dynamic range after the fact. It's seriously crazy how low noise, high headroom computer stuff is. So, to summarize, ProTools two-channel bundle, sm57, Studio Projects B1. That's it. That's probably doable for less than $1000 and you can do some cool crap.

[A-Barr]

OK, just for fun I'm going to assume you want to record acoustic guitar and voice.
A/D Converter - RME Multiface 2/Desktop Bundle - 900
Mic Pre's - Presonus MP20 (stereo) - 500
- Hreat River ME1NV - 1100
Mics - Stereo Pair Oktava MK012 - 375
Soundelux U195 - 1100

That's 4 grand's worth. In my opinion that is the most quality for your dollar if you're recording singer-songwriters. A nice stereo pair of SDC's going into the Presonus and a big ol' LDC going through a beautiful Neve-ish preamp, all into some great converters. BUT if you want to go on the cheap, I'd still recommend the multiface, you could get an EH 12AY7 pre for vox for around $180 and an AT4040 for an LDC at 300, that'll knock $1700 off the price, you could pick up an array of dynamics and some more pre's and you'll have a more flexible, less specialized studio.

[pandatone]

well, to me the first question is, to go PT LE, or not.
that will be your quickest and cheapest way into some recording. an Mbox, and that comes with PT Le.. half way there.

otherwise, i would reccoment the MOTU ultralite. its small, but has lots or room for growth. and digital performer. it may be more then you need. but imo thats a crock of sh@t. how can something be more then you need.. unless you are 100% confident in the 1 thing you want to do, and never deviate.

or, one of those mackie onyx mixers. it can be a mixer, and interface, and a couple OK pre's.

another good, easy program is Tracktion. cheap too. (compared to the likes of digital performer, and logic)

i think the ART MPA dual pre amp is a good deal.

joe meek C2 half rack stereo compressor (opto). you can only find them used.

then for mic's.. witch is tricker..
shure sm57/58.. you know it, you love/hate it.. good to have around.
rode NT1 out of producion. but a fine affordable mic i think.
shiney box 23. very fine affordable ribbon mic.

and a pair of those small diaphram octava MK012 mics for stereo over head. if you need that kind of thing.

panda

[I'm Painting Again]

You can afford an analog setup..a cassette 4track isnt expensive..lots of tascam and teac multitracks arent very expensive..so I guess don't rule that out as an option..cassette can really sound amazing with a good mic and good preamp feeding it..

The first thing to consider are your goals..what are they?

this is the single most important thing to state when asking for advice..otherwise people will shoot out random ideas which may not really be relevant to your situation..

[robosaurus]

I'm only looking to record myself.
Probably a lot of tracks
as far as the PT/LE question
i don't know enough about the software that's out there to know
I was considering the presonus firebox and cubase le 48 track
I like the tascam multi-track cassette idea but i'm not sure that'd be enough tracks for me
Instruments i would be recording are:
-my voice (i think i'm a little lower than tenor)
-nylon and steel guitar
-violin
-wurlitzer student model electric piano
-moog rogue, nord lead 2
-possibly drums or one drum at a time
-any other acoustic instruments i can find
If I were to record drums i'd probably trach each piece of the kit separately.
I realize I could spend 10 grand on a good condensor mic. I wish I could by a U47 that'd be nice. I just don't think I have songs worth spending 10 grand on a condensor mic for, I'm not a beatle.
I like the shiny box suggestion that seems like a good suggestion
I was also looking at hamptones
Any good places to look for stuff online?
bands whose sound i am into:
-os mutantes
-gilberto gil
-magnetic fields
-tom waits
-flaming lips
-animal collective
-deerhoof
-david bowie
-neutral milk hotel

I am aware of the fact that most if not all of them use tape

but again any suggestions to get a good sound are most appreciated

thanks everyone for all the suggestions so far

[Professor]

You said already that you own a Mac G4. Is that a tower or a laptop?
And more importantly, does that mean you're a "mac guy" who likes the platform for internet, itunes, and regular software stuff?
Does it mean you upgrade the operating system regularly? Maybe on the day the new release comes out?

I'm not asking this to start a Mac vs. PC debate because you already own that computer, so it would be silly to suggest blowing part of the budget on redundant gear.
But I have been seeing a trend at Apple lately as regards their music and video software as well as their hardware and operating systems. In the past, Apple has been a stable platform for 3rd party hardware & software developers who choose to use Mac as a host platform. But lately Apple has entrenched themselves deep into the software world, especially in music and video production. As a consequence, I see Apple making sure that every new revision of their OS and every new hardware decision will work with their software, but it almost seems they are intentionally kicking down other software & hardware with each upgrade.
It might sound like a conspriacy theory, and to a large extent it is. But I chose a Mac platform with ProTools HD for the school studio. I picked ProTools because they built both the hardware and software for their system so I knew the two would always work seemlessly together. I chose Mac because PT started there and at the time (a short 3.5 years ago) there was still more 3rd party plug-in support on the Mac side. Also, Mac builds both their hardware and their OS, which means I really only had two companies that needed to interface, Apple & Digidesign.
The trouble is that Apple acquired the Logic audio software which is directly competitive to ProTools, and everything else on the market. Now it seems that Apple tends to keep Digi out of the loop on OS upgrades so that anytime someone upgrades their OS, Digi has to scramble to get a fix in place because ProTools is shut down with the upgrade. Logic, of course, works like a charm and might even grow a new feature.
Lately, this has been an issue with hardware as well. A friend of mine said that he just recently upgraded his OS and his Presonus interface stopped working, and naturally Presonus doesn't have a patch prepared yet.
It's my guess (in that sort of conspiratorial way) that Apple will acquire a hardware interface company in the next year or so. They missed out on M-Audio since Digi (Avid) bought them last year. I expect they will go after RME (maybe) or Apogee (more likely since they now have a joint product for Logic).

So that's a long and sordid bit of background. But the simple statement is that while I have never used Logic, and while I love ProTools, and even while I hate what I perceive as Apple's guerilla tactics, I think that if I were building a new studio I would build it around a new Mac and Logic Pro. Then you have a single company that builds the computer hardware, the OS, the audio software, and very soon (I think) the audio interface hardware as well.
And since you already own that Mac, I would strongly advise that you look very carefully at how many different manufacturers you are involving if you choose to use non-Apple software.

After that, my advice for what to buy with a $3k-4k budget is a basic starter that is part of a larger system you would eventually like to have. Do some research and on paper build yourself the 'dream system'. Then start picking off the pieces one step at a time. I started my location recording rig with a portable DAT, a borrowed 2-channel preamp, and two multi-pattern mics (plus cables, stands, etc.) but I knew I wanted to get bigger, and stay portable (not battery portable but just small and mobile). I added a small mixer first to replace the borrowed preamp. Then more mics. Then a multi-track (DA-78 ). And a few more cables & stands along the way. Eventually I had an 8-channel location rig with about 12 mics and I could record lots of different projects with a rig that still fit behind the seats in my extended-cab pickup.
How does a man eat an elephant?

One bite at a time.

And how do you build your $5k, 10k, or 100k dream studio?

-Jeremy

[honkyjonk]

You're in the right place I suppose if you're into all those bands.

Sounds to me like you should have a 4 track cassette machine regardless of what else you have in addition.

Remember, you can record basics (drums & bass), like a lot of people do, on the cassette machine and dump it into a computer program.

I totally agree w/ the professor on most of his points. Keep the mac of course, but I would look more at DP or Logic than Cubase. As far as I'm concerned, Digidesign is the goddamn Leviathon. I suppose, theoretically, Protools is pretty user friendly. But that's after you get it up and running with your system. In my opinion, it's a lot easier to learn a program that is more difficult to use than to try and figure out compatability issues. I don't even record on a computer at home. It's just at school, trying to be creative in a Tiger OS/ MBOX 2 environment that is sorting out all kinds of compatability problems, is just a nightmare.

On the microphone front, every person in the world should own an SM57. I have almost always been disappointed by cheap large diaphram condensors. (If you want a large, present vocal, there's tons of cheopo LDC's that can do that, but I've found they don't work for much else.) The soundelux U195 is an awesome mic, and I can think of worse things to sink $800 (used) in.

But for dynamic and ribbon mics there are some really cool choices for relatively cheap that you will always love and keep. Sennheiser 421 and 441's. Shure SM7. EV RE-anything. Ribbons, you have the PPA ribbon, which is the same as the Nady one, various beyerdynamics, Oktava ML-52.

For preamps and compressors, boy is there some cool options if you're willing to build them yourself. Check out the "kits for DIY" in the DIY forum.

[audiogeek1]

If you have the G4 already I would look into getting an MBox with Pro Tools software. These are pretty stable and work really well. I would recommend getting a decent set of monitors so you can hear what you have recorded on something other than headphones.

Then look into a good pair of preamps. The Hamptones would be good, a pair of OSA pres would also sound good and you could add more later or add API eq modules to that later on. Also the Neve Portico would be a good place to start.

Then for mics I would suggest a dynamic mic. Shure SM7 would be my choice for dynamic, also a pair of small diaphram condensers like the Oktava MK012 would be good for recording in stereo like the acoustic guitar, piano, etc,.. then a large diaphram condenser. This one you would have to listen to on your voice etc... I personally like the AT 4047 and have had excellent luck with my pair. Also you can't go too wrong with an AKG 414. Multipattern and sounds pretty good on most things. It is on my list of mics if I could only take 3 to record something. Just like the SM7 is and a DPA 4003 is on there also.

Then look into a good compressor. Something like a distressor, or an LA3 or 1176. A mono channel will be fine to start. you could use it to compress things that are single miced.

This setup might be just over the 4k mark when you add the monitors but would be a great starting point and would give you a couple of channels that would hold their own against other things out there.

Just a few thoughts

Mike

[Professor]

...Also the Neve Portico would be a good place to start.
...also a pair of small diaphram condensers like the Oktava MK012 would be good for recording in stereo like the acoustic guitar, piano, etc,..

Ah the classic TapeOp gear suggestions... 40-50% of the budget on a snazzy preamp that will power up a couple of mics worth perhaps 5% of the budget.

I don't mean to beat up on Mike. Actually I like his suggestions for all the other mics, and indeed for the preamps too, but that's more for the bigger budget, $10k+ dream studio, at least in my estimate.
But expect to see lots of suggestions about getting one or two mics, especially cheap ones, and then getting one or more 'upgrade' preamps to try and make the mics sound better.
Now I love preamps too, but I find that a wide selection of mics makes more sense and gives more tone options faster when you are recording a range of different acoustic instruments as it seems you will be doing. Simply put, you will likely have 2 or 4 preamps built into whatever audio interface you buy. If they are there, then use them - at least for a little while. Put the money into either nicer mics or more options for mics.
You can always add a preamp six months or perhaps a year from now, after you have a good sense of what mics you have, how to use them and what kind of preamp might improve them.
And if there is a risk of you potentially recording drums then you're probably going to want to use more than one or two mics. Having the mics is kind of required, and then having either more input channels available on the recording system or havinng a small mixer available would make that possible.

Focus on the basics first. Mics, small mixer and/or interface, software, monitors, cables, stands, and other essentials. Later on you can add the extra toys like outboard preamps or compressors or other effects units.
That warning from John about the vicious cycle of upgrading doesn't have to start before you plug in the first cable.

-Jeremy

[standup]

This is a fun little exercise.

mbox would work, or MOTU ultralite thing. Both come with software, ProTools or Digital Performer.

FMR "Really nice mic pre", or a pair of the Electroharmonix pre's. Or a Hamptone.

If you want to do a drum kit, maybe a small mixer with your mic pre's there *instead* of a mic pre. You could do a 3-4 mic setup and buss it to 2 tracks on the interface. Or if you had others there you could track 2-3 people at once and go to the 2 channel interface.

A pair of Josephson C42's.

A Shure SM 57

A large diaphragm condensor that sounds good on your voice.

What about monitors? Listen to a lot of stuff, find something that works for you.

You could definitely do variations on this for 3-4k.

[thearnicasync]

FWIW, if you're recording yourself, look hard at the software, specifically the workflow. I tried to go PTLE awhile back. Super stable, "sounded" fine, but to me seemed really gear towards recording other people. No changing song tempo in real time, and a few other things I can't remember that made it kind of annoyingly slow to just sit down and record.

$.01

[chovie d]

this thread makes baby jesus cry.