Complete studio for $1000 to $2000

cdbabel · Post by **cdbabel** » Mon May 01, 2006 10:39 am

I'm writing an article about how to build a small home studio/portable studio on a budget (<$1000 to no greater then $2000).

Essentially I'm looking for a mix of a recording medium (digital or analogue), mic pre-amps, audio interface (for a computer setup), microphones and monitors.

As far as computer setups go, either assume that they have a workable computer already or factor in a mac mini (about 600), which I know can at-least run GarageBand without a hitch.

I'd be interested to hear any workable analogue suggestions people can work up, thought I don't think a 4 track cassette is a truly viable option, unless someone has experience otherwise and can give tips on how to make it really work well.

We're talking entry level recording to semi-professional. And of course at this price range there will be a lot of compromises.

I'd like to get some input on what gear works well in this budget. In particular, leads to decent budget monitors (Personally I like the Tannoy Proto-Js, which I think are out of production, even though they are passive, which can be confusing for beginners) and budget audio interfaces (FirePod, M-Box, things in that range).

Currently I'm leaning towards recommending SM-57s or the controversial Nady SP-5 for dynamic mics (I've gotten great results from them, but I know Nady is shifty as anything.) For condenser Microphones, I'm leaning towards the MXL 990 and 991 set which runs for about $100. I've gotten acceptable results from these microphones and the price is hard to beat. Suggestions on other useable mics from $150 or less would be great!

The end goal is to help people buy the right gear at the right price so they can put together a decent demo or even album on a budget.

Suggestions based on various types and sizes of bands are encouraged! Of course, the gear you need will change based on what your recording.

The article has been started, but it doesn't have much yet. The final article will be split up into many different articles covering different types of setups and in depth discussions of every question raised.

Here's the link: http://www.wikirecording.org/Guide_to_B ... n_a_Budget

As always, thanks for your help!

curtiswyant · Post by **curtiswyant** » Mon May 01, 2006 12:48 pm

Hmmm...well, here's my setup, it might be close give or take:
Tascam 388 $400
Delta 1010 $300
Yorkville YSM-1's $450
(2) SM57s $75
(2) SP B1s $175
(2) Oktava MC012's $150
ATM25 $100
EV 635a $50

---------------

~$1700

of course, I'm omitting the little stuff like cables, stand, etc...

KennyLusk · Post by **KennyLusk** » Mon May 01, 2006 2:08 pm

M-Audio's Delta 1010LT IMO is an incredible bargain PCI interface at $179.

Quest Poetics · Post by **Quest Poetics** » Mon May 01, 2006 7:18 pm

Tell em to buy it used...

Used g3 mac....$150
used digi 001....$400

Put the rest toward mics and mic stands etc...Dont forget the bswusa 5 pack specials...5 mic stands for $99

or 5 mics $99 etc....

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Mon May 01, 2006 10:10 pm

Take a look at Larry's end rant from that last TapeOp because that is really what you are most likely to leave out of the budget, and what always gets left out of the budget. Sure it's fun to sit with a catalog and say, 'what would I buy with $1000' but if somebody sees the article and gets all excited because it seems like a nice formula, but then finds out later that cables, headphones, more cables, mic stands, cables, a few instructional books or videos, more cables, extra software like synths or plugins, and other studio essentials all bring the cost up somewhat before the studio is useful. And not to sound too much like a dick, but let's leave out the "semi-professional" part of that. God willing, nobody that has made a $1000-2000 investment in their gear will be out at the clubs trying to convince local bands to part with their money to record their next demo there. Obviously they will, and there's not much that will stop them, but it doesn't need to be encouraged.
But back to the key topic at hand here, I do think that it is important that you don't try to create the single cookie-cutter system for home recording. Hell, look in the Sweetwater of BSW or other catalogs and you'll see a bunch of cookie-cutter systems, but they are scaled and they even attempt to explain how one is different from the next. After all, a guy that will be recording himself in his bedrrom playing acoustic guitar and singing will not need the same compliment of mics that a guy in a 4-piece rock band recording demos in their garage will need. Someone that wants to record his band live at their gigs will need something different than someone who plays piano & sings and wants to create a CD of Christmas songs.
If you want to be truly comprehensive (which seems to be your goal with your website there) then you have to consider lots of different scenarios and create different shapes for those cookie-cutters.

I'd suggest simply flipping open the Stalewater & BSW catalogs, taking the systems they show, and really expanding them out to list every necessary cable, connector, etc. That would really help people who are new to this, because that is what nobody else ever gives them.
And also, don't be ambitous with the price tags - be realistic... an SM-57 doesn't cost $70, most places list them for $89 and you have to figure either tax or shippings, so just call it $100. If anything, the 'buyer' will find it somewhat cheaper and feel they've found a deal rather than getting pissed off at your site when they expect a $1500 price tag and end up with a $1900 price tag before tax and/or shipping.
Same thing goes for one-off fantasy finds on eBay or the local thrift store. Direct people to NEW gear that is WIDELY available just as much as you would direct them to EASY gear that suits a complete novice. Don't start getting into outboard preamps and tube compressors and that kind of stuff when you may be dealing with folks who don't know one end of the microphone from another. If it's a computer system then tell them about mics, stands, mic cables, an all-in-one interface (built by the software manufacturer for minimum compatibility issues), the software, the monitoring on headphones and speakers, the CD burning, etc. On a stand-alone system, stress the similarities of how they use the same mics, stands, mic cables, into a different all-in-one recorder, but then out to the same headphones, speakers, etc.

-Jeremy

cdbabel · Post by **cdbabel** » Mon May 01, 2006 11:02 pm

Professor wrote:Take a look at Larry's end rant from that last TapeOp because that is really what you are most likely to leave out of the budget, and what always gets left out of the budget. Sure it's fun to sit with a catalog and say, 'what would I buy with $1000' but if somebody sees the article and gets all excited because it seems like a nice formula, but then finds out later that cables, headphones, more cables, mic stands, cables, a few instructional books or videos, more cables, extra software like synths or plugins, and other studio essentials all bring the cost up somewhat before the studio is useful. And not to sound too much like a dick, but let's leave out the "semi-professional" part of that. God willing, nobody that has made a $1000-2000 investment in their gear will be out at the clubs trying to convince local bands to part with their money to record their next demo there. Obviously they will, and there's not much that will stop them, but it doesn't need to be encouraged.
But back to the key topic at hand here, I do think that it is important that you don't try to create the single cookie-cutter system for home recording. Hell, look in the Sweetwater of BSW or other catalogs and you'll see a bunch of cookie-cutter systems, but they are scaled and they even attempt to explain how one is different from the next. After all, a guy that will be recording himself in his bedrrom playing acoustic guitar and singing will not need the same compliment of mics that a guy in a 4-piece rock band recording demos in their garage will need. Someone that wants to record his band live at their gigs will need something different than someone who plays piano & sings and wants to create a CD of Christmas songs.
If you want to be truly comprehensive (which seems to be your goal with your website there) then you have to consider lots of different scenarios and create different shapes for those cookie-cutters.

I'd suggest simply flipping open the Stalewater & BSW catalogs, taking the systems they show, and really expanding them out to list every necessary cable, connector, etc. That would really help people who are new to this, because that is what nobody else ever gives them.
And also, don't be ambitous with the price tags - be realistic... an SM-57 doesn't cost $70, most places list them for $89 and you have to figure either tax or shippings, so just call it $100. If anything, the 'buyer' will find it somewhat cheaper and feel they've found a deal rather than getting pissed off at your site when they expect a $1500 price tag and end up with a $1900 price tag before tax and/or shipping.
Same thing goes for one-off fantasy finds on eBay or the local thrift store. Direct people to NEW gear that is WIDELY available just as much as you would direct them to EASY gear that suits a complete novice. Don't start getting into outboard preamps and tube compressors and that kind of stuff when you may be dealing with folks who don't know one end of the microphone from another. If it's a computer system then tell them about mics, stands, mic cables, an all-in-one interface (built by the software manufacturer for minimum compatibility issues), the software, the monitoring on headphones and speakers, the CD burning, etc. On a stand-alone system, stress the similarities of how they use the same mics, stands, mic cables, into a different all-in-one recorder, but then out to the same headphones, speakers, etc.

-Jeremy

Thats pretty much the idea. I definitely plan to work in cables etc into the budget and I'm basing the prices off of MusiciansFriend/Sweetwater.

Not to sound dumb, but whats BSW?

Essentially all I meant by semi-pro was that people will probably use this gear to create a product they are going to sell. Not unrealistic (I ran/run a cd review magazine and a surprising amount of well done albums were done with cheapo equipment in a basic home studio.) Of course, I'm not talking about running a real studio for under $2000, which is truely laughable.

*OK, some irony here, because thats exactly what I did when I got my recording gear when I was 16. I just brought in any artist I could find and recorded them for a small fee, learning as a i went along. You'd be surprised what you can get done with lots of determination and a nonexistent budget. Course, while the product was better then anything they'd ever heard before, listening to it today, I cringe.*

The tax thing is kinda funny, just because I come from Portland, OR, so i never think in terms of sales tax (which I should, now that i'm living in NM). Shipping though doesn't tend to be a problem unless you want it fast. Both Sweetwater and Musicians friends do free shipping on most things if your willing to wait (hell, with sweetwater free shipping I still sometimes get a 3 day turn around, even though I'm in New Mexico).

But ya, that all said and done, I'm still looking for first hand accounts of what is worth recommending on a budget. God I wish I could get my hands on all the gear to do a side by side account. But I still figure I want to do more then just a technical spec comparison, because those don't tell jack about the end user experience.

I'll probably just end up writing most of it some time this week and maybe then people will chime in with additions/edits.

cdbabel · Post by **cdbabel** » Mon May 01, 2006 11:14 pm

Sound Campaign wrote:Tell em to buy it used...

Used g3 mac....$150
used digi 001....$400

Put the rest toward mics and mic stands etc...Dont forget the bswusa 5 pack specials...5 mic stands for $99

or 5 mics $99 etc....

I don't think I'd ever tell a newbie to get a used G3 mac. Old computers, in my experience, cause more grief then the money saved (particularly a computer that is 4 generations old in terms of processors). I say if you don't have a suitable computer, buckle down and get a mac mini. At least thats a good, reliable, place to start (despite the slow HD), particularly for people with little to no computer experience. Sure you could get a PC for cheaper, but you'd have to learn how to make it work for you, taking valuable time from recording.

In generally, i think buying new is better for newbies just so they get the complete manual and the possibility to return the unit. It can be hard for newbies to tell right away if a piece of equipment isn't working properly or if they just didn't set it up right, so its probably best to minimize the first option.

I guess I could add the criteria that I want this budget system to be as reliable as possible (minimum setup, minimum start up knowledge) just to get people off their feet. Nothing is more frustrating then getting new equipment and then having to spend two weeks trying to get it to work like you thought it would (not to mention having to buy MORE stuff because you didn't understand that great eBay deal in the first place.)

Not that buying things used is always a bad idea, I do it all the time. But unless you've got a knowledgeable friend to help guide you through the process, new is just gonna work better most of the time.

And I've gotta agree with Jeremy that I don't want people to have to hunt for rare deals to build their system.

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Mon May 01, 2006 11:29 pm

BSW= Broadcast Supply Warehouse. A catalog/mail order place like Ameican Music Supply (which is owned by Sam Ash iirc). BSW seems to have some more serious stuff than AMS though.

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Mon May 01, 2006 11:35 pm

Broadcast Supply Worldwide in Tacoma is the home of the 5 for $89 Sennheiser headphones and other such delightful package deals. The also have cute little 'package' systems that include a few mics, cables, mixer, recorder, etc. assembled for different purposes and budgets.

Don't get me wrong, I support the idea of helping people out with these kinds of basic systems. I used to sell these kinds of setups to people, so I jnow some of the pitfalls that often get overlooked and/or ignored like salesguys at our competitors who would regularly quote systems without cables, racks, cases or other essentials so the price would appear lower and then screw the buyers later.
That's why an independent resource for system design/integration help would be great for a lot people. But I also would hesistate on quoting specific prices from any particular store. Just tell them an SM-57 runs about $100, or that those Sennheiser HD-202s are $20-25 a pair, even if they can be had at 5 for $89. Tell the readers not to forget the "hidden" costs of tax, shipping, etc. because they may choose to support local shops instead of Stalewater... not to mention that as soon as they're assigned a salesguy at some of those shops, they will be subject to the "up sell". Granted, it is always good for a knowledgeable "expert" to actually consider the specific project demands and requirements to ensure that the would-be engineer gets the best system for their money - as long as the expert will actually do that and not just sell them this weeks 'hot item'.

It's a noble endeavor you've undertaken, but it's also potentially quite involved.

-Jeremy

ckeene · Post by **ckeene** » Tue May 02, 2006 4:22 am

You also might want to differentiate between a studio that's capable of recording a full ensemble (most likely an 8 input setup) vs a 2 track setup.

cdbabel · Post by **cdbabel** » Tue May 02, 2006 7:39 am

Professor wrote:Broadcast Supply Worldwide in Tacoma is the home of the 5 for $89 Sennheiser headphones and other such delightful package deals. The also have cute little 'package' systems that include a few mics, cables, mixer, recorder, etc. assembled for different purposes and budgets.

Don't get me wrong, I support the idea of helping people out with these kinds of basic systems. I used to sell these kinds of setups to people, so I jnow some of the pitfalls that often get overlooked and/or ignored like salesguys at our competitors who would regularly quote systems without cables, racks, cases or other essentials so the price would appear lower and then screw the buyers later.
That's why an independent resource for system design/integration help would be great for a lot people. But I also would hesistate on quoting specific prices from any particular store.

Just tell them an SM-57 runs about $100, or that those Sennheiser HD-202s are $20-25 a pair, even if they can be had at 5 for $89. Tell the readers not to forget the "hidden" costs of tax, shipping, etc. because they may choose to support local shops instead of Stalewater... not to mention that as soon as they're assigned a salesguy at some of those shops, they will be subject to the "up sell". Granted, it is always good for a knowledgeable "expert" to actually consider the specific project demands and requirements to ensure that the would-be engineer gets the best system for their money - as long as the expert will actually do that and not just sell them this weeks 'hot item'.

It's a noble endeavor you've undertaken, but it's also potentially quite involved.

-Jeremy

Sounds like my life. Not completely nobel though, or rather nobel but business oriented. Information like this brings a lot of visitors to the site.

I also partially pay for the site by getting commissions from Musicians Friend, hence the tendency to quote their prices first. Course, I'm too honest to just quote their prices, particularly if I find a better store with better deals. Good for everyone else, too bad for me.

But honesty is worth more than a pocket full of silver in my book.

Wanna tell me about the Sennheiser HD-202s? What sorta mics are they and what uses would you recommend them for? I've heard the name thrown around a lot, but never had a chance to use them myself.

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Tue May 02, 2006 10:02 am

The Sennheiser HD-202s are the headphones they sell in that 5 pack. Nice circumaural, sealed-back, and cheap headphones that have received a lot of discussion 'round these parts.

It's OK that you are linking people in to the Musician's Friend site, but I probably still wouldn't quote their discount price specifically without figuring that folks will have to pay tax and/or shipping. And you don't know when the sales or promos will end and you will have to chase the prices up and down. It's a pretty minor point, so I don't think we need to belabor it so much.

More important, as mentioned above, it would be nice to spec out different systems for different folks. You might even be able to create a sort of question flow chart that quides people to different system designs. Imagine a starter question of, "do you own a commputer that may be suitable for audio recording?" with a Yes/No answer click shifting to the next question along the lines of (for no) "will a computer purchase need to be part of your total budget?" (or for yes) "Is the computer a desktop (tower) system or a portable/laptop machine?" And so on. Just knowing that would let you know that the buyer might be able to consider both PCI-based systems and/or USB/Firewire systems.

-Jeremy

cdbabel · Post by **cdbabel** » Tue May 02, 2006 11:34 am

Professor wrote:The Sennheiser HD-202s are the headphones they sell in that 5 pack. Nice circumaural, sealed-back, and cheap headphones that have received a lot of discussion 'round these parts.

It's OK that you are linking people in to the Musician's Friend site, but I probably still wouldn't quote their discount price specifically without figuring that folks will have to pay tax and/or shipping. And you don't know when the sales or promos will end and you will have to chase the prices up and down. It's a pretty minor point, so I don't think we need to belabor it so much.

More important, as mentioned above, it would be nice to spec out different systems for different folks. You might even be able to create a sort of question flow chart that quides people to different system designs. Imagine a starter question of, "do you own a commputer that may be suitable for audio recording?" with a Yes/No answer click shifting to the next question along the lines of (for no) "will a computer purchase need to be part of your total budget?" (or for yes) "Is the computer a desktop (tower) system or a portable/laptop machine?" And so on. Just knowing that would let you know that the buyer might be able to consider both PCI-based systems and/or USB/Firewire systems.

-Jeremy

The flow chart would be kinda nice, but doesn't really fit with the style of the site, though the different articles for different setups will probably act much like a flow chart.

Hmm...I might pick up those headphones for myself!

thebookofkevin · Post by **thebookofkevin** » Wed May 03, 2006 1:19 am

The 5 mic stands for $89 is a great bargain for starting out, but you might also want to suggest a counterweight or two, cause the stands don't always lock tightly enough.

I would also like to mention the ShinyBox ribbon microphone as an entry-level (pricing anyways) ribbon mic. It sounds fantastic and is relatively cheap.

curtiswyant · Post by **curtiswyant** » Wed May 17, 2006 8:45 am

I would also advocate doing as much DIY as you can, like using free software/plugs and making your own cables. Also, BUY USED!!! Sure, you can't get a $50 SM57 every day but they're out there if you're patient...

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Complete studio for $1000 to $2000

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