F@$K the F@$king Beatles!

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amishsixstringer
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F@$K the F@$king Beatles!

Post by amishsixstringer » Thu May 11, 2006 2:39 pm

This may come off as crazy, but I'm actually tired of the beatles! Not so much the music, but all the damn hype. I'm at a recording school right now, and the beatles have been mentioned every day for 2 months. "The beatles used u47's on everything, and fairchilds, and doubled vocal takes, and put their drum mic here, and used 4 track recorders and blah blah blah". I know they were pioneers. Great. Cool. That's not even where my beef comes in. My problem is now every shmuck with a 'studio' has to do things because the beatles did it. YOU DON'T SOUND LIKE THE BEATLES! That's a good thing! You shouldn't sound like the beatles, because their music is 40 years old! Do something new and creative!

This isn't necessarily directed at anybody here, but mainly at the mindless twerps here that are in these "indie" (beatles tribute/cover/rip-off) bands and have bowl cuts and wire frame glasses. I'm just a bitter person about it right now. Feel free to tell me I need to know my roots and respect them and blah blah blah, but I'm 21 years old, and I have prided myself on NOT knowing what people have done in the past. This helps me not rip them off quite as easily. Maybe I'll come up with an idea that has been done. Cool. WHatever. At least I came up with it on my own with thought, rather than directly ripping it off from somebody without even listening to it. I try to use my ears instead of "Ok put the sm57 2" off center at 32.3 degrees blah blah blah" This brings me to a story.

My professor, who is a very respected producer/engineer from LA (sublime, unwritten law, pennywise, dub all stars, donna summers...) was going over a few mics in our studio and said "this nuemann mic is the best mic in the studio". Then, we got to do our 24 track projects on our own time. Upon listening to them in class, about 3 fine individuals used that mic on EVERY SINGLE FUCKING INSTRUMENT. Then you listen to their mix...mmmmm lots of juicy midrange there. I can almost distinguish the bass guitar from a hi hat! wooooo!

Ok, I'm going to stop now. I'm sorry if offended any hippies, but I go to this liberal school full of acoustic guitar strumming numbskulls who put flowers in their hair and dance around while their stoned buddy beats on his 30 dollar bongos he bought from walmart, and it gets to be a little frustrating, I suppose.

Neil

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JohnDavisNYC
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Post by JohnDavisNYC » Thu May 11, 2006 2:42 pm

good thing you're at a recording school. I'd hate for someone with your attitude to ever work in a studio.

john
i like to make music with music and stuff and things.

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Electro-Voice 664
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Post by Electro-Voice 664 » Thu May 11, 2006 2:44 pm

You should score drugs from those hippies...
"Play ethnicky jazz to parade your snazz. On your five grand stereo."

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lyman
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Re: F@$K the F@$king Beatles!

Post by lyman » Thu May 11, 2006 2:50 pm

amishsixstringer wrote: Feel free to tell me I need to know my roots and respect them and blah blah blah, but I'm 21 years old, and I have prided myself on NOT knowing what people have done in the past. This helps me not rip them off quite as easily.
so let me get this straight: you're paying money to learn about recording, but you don't like the fact that they're using examples from the history of recording to get their point(s) across. if you don't want to learn what people did in the past, why the hell are you even wasting your time and money by going to school? what do you expect the teachers to do? sit around all day saying "yeah, just do your own thing, figure it out on your own."

amishsixstringer
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Post by amishsixstringer » Thu May 11, 2006 2:58 pm

I completely understand your point. Teach basic techniques or whatever, but the point I'm making is that people are not even attempting to do something with their ears. "Eddie said to put the mic here, so if I don't put it right here it's wrong". It's not wrong to do something different.

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surf's up
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Re: F@$K the F@$king Beatles!

Post by surf's up » Thu May 11, 2006 3:02 pm

amishsixstringer wrote:but I'm 21 years old, and I have prided myself on NOT knowing what people have done in the past.
I cant think of any scientific or artistic discipline where this would be considered a virtue.
Not always following what people have done in the past, sure. But not taking the time to learn a little about the history, thats just lazy arrogance.

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dirty
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Post by dirty » Thu May 11, 2006 4:07 pm

but I'm 21 years old, and I have prided myself on NOT knowing what people have done in the past
Not to pick on the same quote over and over or anything, but... what a ridiculous thing to say. Sure it's good to break rules, but your post sounds more like petulant anti-authoritarian drivel that reminds me of... me, in college. (This is NOT a good thing.)

I'll paraphrase Robert McKee, another person that cool kids love to hate: You're not learning rules. You're not learning formulas. You're learning principles. It's not "you must use this mic on a kick drum." It's "This mic has been used successfully on kick drum in many of the iconic music recordings of our time". Choose to follow or not, but don't interpret learning about these tools as directives to use them.

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Post by E-Rock » Thu May 11, 2006 4:17 pm

All I know is hostile attitudes don't usually work in the studio.
Maybe you don't like hippies, but I 'll bet they don't like dumb-ass rednecks either. :)
Chill dude....

amishsixstringer
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Post by amishsixstringer » Thu May 11, 2006 4:49 pm

I like how you tell me to chill and call me a dumb ass redneck in the same post. Great way to make yourself look like a peace keeper. I'm not a hostile person. I have good relationships with every band I've worked with in my short career. This was simply a rant. Dirty, what you said about learning principles is exactly what I just said. What I am saying is that a very large amount of people don't take these suggestions as suggestions, but rather fact. That is what I'm pissed off about.

I didn't post this expecting to be praised. I was pretty sure people would be pissed. Honestly, that's aaa ok. But, the funny thing is how many people respond to my post with this angst and pissed off tone while sconing me for having my opinion and being pissed off. I'm not arrogant because I don't care to take time to memorize what Ken Scott's favorite microphone is. I appreciate everything anyone before me has done to get things where they are now, but I'm not going to waddle around in that pond while I could be learning something on my own. Recording music is an art, and I don't want to paint a fruit basket.

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jv
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Post by jv » Thu May 11, 2006 4:53 pm

amishsixstringer wrote:I'm not going to waddle around in that pond while I could be learning something on my own.
Why are you going to school to learn this stuff then?

brian beattie
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Post by brian beattie » Thu May 11, 2006 5:51 pm

I hate the fucking beatles, too. The shitting beatles are MUCH better.
brian

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Jeff White
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Post by Jeff White » Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm

When I was in college for music in the mid-late 90s, there was this one guy in my recording classes who told me that he refused to listen to music because he wanted to be original and did not want his music polluted by other people's ideas. I always thought that his life lacked any joy because of this. Very pretentious. Not saying that this is how you are, but I have to admit that your post reminded me of this guy a bit.

Here is my advice to you: Be willing to have the patience to learn the basics and build a great foundation. Mic techniques, signal flow, EQ, compression, etc. I know that it's not always the most exciting stuff, and I know that college is full of folks who may not be as passionate or as experienced concerning recording as you are, but don't let this distract you from learning.

Concerning the Beatles, I started listening when I was four and went through the "they aren't that cool anymore", etc phase at some point as a teenager in the 1980s. I can honestly say that the deeper my education/experience with recording, the more and more I respect what happened in the studio with them in the 1960s. There is a reason why those records still sound amazing today. Those techniques are grounded in physics and acoustics, and still hold true today. Those recording sessions (along with Motown) crafted genius, and what happened in Abbey Road EMI advanced recording as both an art and a science.

There is a reason why they are referenced as often as they are; aside from the reasons already stated, they were very well documented and there are myriad books detailing those sessions.

Jeff

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Post by mikehattem » Thu May 11, 2006 8:28 pm

amishsixstringer wrote:What I am saying is that a very large amount of people don't take these suggestions as suggestions, but rather fact. That is what I'm pissed off about.
Why do you even care what they do?? You don't care about what The Beatles did but you care enough about what your co-students are doing to get upset about it?? As far as not knowing what people did before... you can't break the rules if you don't know what the rules are... you have a good attitude towards the uniqueness aspect of recording - my suggestion would be to not worry what the other guys do in your school - at least not enough to get upset about it. Good luck man.

Mike
My Band: NATIONAL STEEL
http://www.myspace.com/nationalsteel

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Post by cgarges » Thu May 11, 2006 9:12 pm

Guys, keep it civil.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

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JGriffin
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Post by JGriffin » Thu May 11, 2006 9:46 pm

Anti-Beatles threads are getting as common around here as analog vs. digital threads. It's kind of tiresome.

In my experience, people who say things like "I have prided myself on NOT knowing what people have done in the past" actually end up making pretty dull music.

But from a "this guy wants to be a pro engineer someday" standpoint, I'll offer this up in the interest of being civil and constructive: The last 50 years of rock music (not to even get into other genres and hundreds of years of classical and folk etc.) inform musicians in a way that provides a common set of reference points that makes communication easier. you may be putting together something completely original but still use the Beatles, Sinatra, Elvis, The Eagles, you name it as shorthand for what you're trying to accomplish. If a musician says he wants a John Lennon/Instant Karma vocal echo, or a Fleetwood Mac-type thing on the drums, or he thinks the record should have a feel like Carole King's "Tapestry," or the backup vocals should sound like a country/gospel Johnny Cash record from the '70s, those are clues, not neccesarily requests for direct replication. The more of those common touchpoints you can access in your brain, the easier it'll be to bring the music out the way the artist wants it to sound. This may actually be more important to a career as an engineer than knowing the difference between Blumlein and Mid/Side.
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