F@$K the F@$king Beatles!

virtualguthrie · Post by **virtualguthrie** » Fri May 12, 2006 10:49 pm

OK, now I read the post (just the original) and I gotta say I think you have the right idea, not necessarily about hating the Beatles (even though that has it's own set of virtues, how about a new religion, maybe we should talk) but about being original and not being derivitive or stuck in a particular time period or frame of reference. People who dress like mods or like Rockabilly dudes from the fifties tend to be shallow (not all of them) and generally stuck on themselves and stuck in some crappy derivitive band that sounds like all the other crappy derivitive bands. What is the point? It is so cliche and overdone at this point, that's why I'm into hip-hop. OKOKOKOK, sorry just being a jerk, I'm really not into hip-hop but if I meet another punk teenager who is I'm gonna puke. Talk about derivitive and un-original. My kingdom for someone under 20 who doesn't listen to hip-hop. Anyway, thanks for reading the rant. Peace.

virtualguthrie · Post by **virtualguthrie** » Fri May 12, 2006 11:03 pm

OK, now I read the whole thing. Oh my heart is so warm. Animosity transformed into a loving conversation, wow what a forum.... Seriously on any other forum this thread would have most likely become a firestorm, of course with my last two posts there's still hope....

Seventh Wave Studio · Post by **Seventh Wave Studio** » Sat May 13, 2006 8:43 am

Have an opinion. Do not be afraid to express it.

Challenge everything.

Or, go with the masses and end up with protools doing demos for local bands to a click track like everyone else in your class will.

bravo to you. State your opinion to your teacher. Tell him to talk about The Beatles AND The Melvins AND Steely Dan AND 50 cent AND The Flaming Lips.

trash180 · Post by **trash180** » Sat May 13, 2006 1:45 pm

Why did the producer cross the road?

"Cuz that's how the Beatles did it, Man!"

Sorry I couldn't resist...that pretty much sums it up tho don't it?

katethegreat · Post by **katethegreat** » Sat May 13, 2006 5:14 pm

Oh Neil, I hope someday I can serve you french fries!

philbo · Post by **philbo** » Sat May 13, 2006 7:54 pm

If you're tired of the Beatles why not take some time to find out what OTHER people did in the past. There have been thousands of great (and not so great) recordings done. It's up to you to listen to them and decide what was done right and not-so-right.

While you might be tired of hearing about them, consider that refusing to listen to what is being said about them any more is just refusing to learn.

Refusing to learn is embracing ignorance.

Some times that works (for example: punk rock, rap).

Most of the time it just gets you dead-ended or fired.
And rightly so, IMHO.
________
Ifa forum

amishsixstringer · Post by **amishsixstringer** » Sun May 14, 2006 7:08 pm

Katie, you're too cool for school. We sure did a number on those Unknown Origin dudes! Wicked. Nice shirt. Here's irony: My post was about not following trends, and at the begining of this thread it was cool to hate me. Now, it's cool to find things I said that made a shred of sense. More people may agree, but were afraid to speak up due to the coolness of flaming my grilled ass.
Anyhow, while we mention protools...FUCK protools too. I'm an owner, but this latency shit's getting to me. It sucks that I have to spend another 10K to have delay compensation when it could easily be introduced into LE for a few extra pennies. Assholes.

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Sun May 14, 2006 10:18 pm

Digi can pack LE with as many features as they want, or not...but they have to leave some difference between the LE and HD systems or they'd never sell a high-end system again. Plus--how much do you know about plug-in architecture, host-based software et cetera? Maybe plug delay compensation could be written into LE for a few pennies, maybe it's too processor-intensive and would slow the rest of the program way down.

And so sorry you have to deal with a few milliseconds of latency that you could fix by shifting your audio with a few clicks of the mouse; jesus, its such a hardship considering you're getting a 32-track system for $400! Try setting up a studio with more than 8 tracks back in 1990 for that amount of money. But that's right; you're not into having a historical perspective.

bannerj · Post by **bannerj** » Mon May 15, 2006 7:04 am

you know what...this kid really isn't as bad as I might have originally thought. He is just like almost every other engineer I have ever met: opinionated, reactionary, he has an inflated sense of self importance, and...oh yeah, he is opinionated. I guess that is why I like lurking the TOMB.

Oh, and if Trodden is reading this...he probably smokes out while mixing too!!

thestoryof · Post by **thestoryof** » Mon May 15, 2006 2:47 pm

i'm not going to get into this debate, but i will say that i know some kids that graduated with top honors from the same recording program i think you are enrolled in (Athens?), and after having made several records together, i can attest to the benign nature of their schooling. but realize that your college education is valuable for a very few and important reasons, but none of those will teach you how to record good music. I can recall things said by Redeffer that would make any self-respecting engineer shit his/her pants, but you just blow past that, learn the basics about basics, and the rest you will HAVE to learn from the real world.

I'll go on record saying that one years worth of TapeOp back issues has 10 times the information of a 4 year audio degree from a state college. I'm not talking TopSail, but state schools are a time to find yourself and make great friends, learn elsewhere. Also, an sm57 sounds good on a snare, embrace shit like that;)

goodluck.

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Mon May 15, 2006 2:55 pm

I dunno, man, I don't think the Beatles ever used a 57 on a snare...

amishsixstringer · Post by **amishsixstringer** » Mon May 15, 2006 3:16 pm

Good call. I better stop using 57's on snare then! Redefer teaches sound for moving picture. They don't let him in the studio too often with musicians. Fortunatly, I don't have to put up with him too often. The reason I went to a state school was for that reason. In 4 years, I will have lots of time to be social, really start to think about the future, and actually experiment with things as I learn them. A tech school may have more information to give me in a shorter time, but will not give me the time to absorb the information before I can move on. I often find myself doing weird experiments with tools after learning something that triggers my thoughts. I really think that is why I'm here rather than AES or something. By the way...I don't mix smoked out. I mix, then get smoked and go play beer pong with greek kids or something.

ProTools still pisses me off. What if I wanted to do a submix of my drums and apply parallel compression to them, but still be able to make changes to the individual tracks of the drums? Latencyyyyy mmmm. I know there are some Native systems that account for latency issues, so I think protools could do it. If you're running less than 2GB of RAM then your computer will throw up anyhow. 400 dollars? For an mBox system, but something that's actually usable (002) is a little more eh? Then you get their fiiinnnee mic pres and converters. I could go to another native system that I can't find plugins for I suppose.

Oh yeah, Jeff won't let the school's new LA2A's, Grace 101's, 1176, or Summit amps get installed because he thinks that the students will abuse them. THe only problem is he doesn't own the studio, and the school bought the stuff with my tech fee so that I CAN ABUSE THAT SHIT! That barf face best rec-a-nize! I like Hip-Hop and play in two punk bands. PUKE!

Don't take shit I say so seriously. I'm a kid, and I have no morals. I need to find Jesus and get saved or something.

Neil
Peace and Love
(you know...like totally beatles style dudes!)

katethegreat · Post by **katethegreat** » Tue May 16, 2006 1:59 pm

it's ok N-money...at least we have lights that buzz, rooms that aren't really sound proof, shit that's not hooked up, and automation from the 1930's...all in all I'm pretty stoked about it.

ChrisCo · Post by **ChrisCo** » Thu May 18, 2006 8:06 am

I think something that got lost in all of this is that Neil didn't exactly say he hated the Beatles (despite the inflamed title of the thread). I get that he was frustrated with how heralded the Beatles are by the instructors and, consequently, the students. He's also frustrated in seeing people miss the point, if I may be so bold to say. I have that same kind of feeling when I think about the production of albums in early 2000 in the "NuMetal" genre. The music was formulaic and boring, with production that was just as formulaic and boring. I see the same thing now, but the music's just a little different.

I hear ya, man. I'll quote Carlin cuz that man is genius! <----(insert muse on irony here)

Kids are like everyone else... a few winners... A WHOOOLLLE lot of losers

...same thing with students. In my major, and people that graduated with my ex-girlfriend/girlfriend/whatever she is to me at this point... there were a bunch of people that took the literal information that was given to them and didn't digest it, just regurgitated it. Pretty fuckin' annoying. So I feel your pain man.

It's funny, I've listened to Sgt. Pepper's _ since I was like 4 years old, and I remember that being my favorite album to listen to back then... particularly Good Morning, Good Morning. Fancy that that it would be one of the all time classics!

OH, and another longwinded point that I wanted to make: I'm only 25, so I'm not that far ahead of you in this game by ANY means, so I can't offer any tips on life and all that shit. I used to have that same attitude of not wanting to "swim in the same pond" as everyone else (if that makes sense). I was in a band whose other members idolized Tool and the Deftones and Incubus and all this upandcoming music. I lost out on appreciating some of my favorite music now back then because I had a hard head and didn't want to like the same shit they did so I could be different. I gave that up long ago, and started listening just for the enjoyment, and in some cases, even for the understanding of a music genre that I'm not used to (like Rockabilly or something). I think I'm much better of a musician (and engineer/producer) because of that. I think I can communicate much better because I have more of a common language, a common understanding of expectations that really helps the creative flow.

Just a bit of perspective that helped me (IMHO). I love that you're wanting to challenge the "authorities". Just make sure it's not uninformed.

Peas out

Chris

JWL · Post by **JWL** » Thu May 18, 2006 9:18 am

Hey amish,

I don't think you're annoyed with the Beatles at all. Their back catalog speaks for itself, as does their sizeable place in the history of music. The issue is that so many people try so hard to emulate the Beatles. That's what is frustrating you.

Plus, keep in mind the context. You are in recording school. Why do people go to recording school? Because they lack confidence in their own ability to record music. You seem to have more confidence than most of these other kids. That's a good thing. But understand, most recording newbies are looking for the nonexistent -- quick and simple rules about how to always get a good sound under any and all conditions.

Most people want to believe that if you use German Mic X 9.1 inches away from the singers lips, and run it through Mega Mic Pre Y at specific settings running through Optical Compressor X cranked, you will always get good sound. That isn't true, of course, but when someone like Eddie Kramer says to do that, most people will take it as gospel, and will think of it as "the" correct way to record.

It's not. It might be "a" good way to record, but it will never be more than that.

You're lucky. You have confidence. You aren't afraid to experiment in the name of originality. Don't let recording school kill this for you. At the same time, pay attention to proven techniques. They will only serve you, even if as a starting point for your own experimentations.

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