F@$K the F@$king Beatles!
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- takin' a dinner break
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- pluggin' in mics
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I think the main problem is that the Beatles are considered the anchor for the current musical paradigm. That's not necessarily a bad thing. The whole idea of paradigms is that one creates a new foundation after the old foundation is no longer workable. Isaac Newton created a new paradigm, and while he may be an asshole for suggesting this whole "gravity" thing, we accept it because it is the best possible explanation for the world around us.
However, in order for one to create a new paradigm, there must be several flaws identified within the old paradigm structure. Intitially, these anomalies are ignored, but at some point must be addressed. In order for a new paradigm to emerge, there must be reasons for it to emerge. For example, the vaunted Beatles' techniques are no longer usable within the recording sphere. As an art form, this is perfectly plausible.
The new paradigm emerges, which leads to the phasing out of the old paradigm (which can take a while). Even after the old Beatles paradigm is left in shards, there can be a post-modernist revival of the techniques. However, this is like reverting to believing that the Sun revolves around the Earth. The old paradigm is gone, and with it the full set of ideas that allowed that paradigm to exist.
Simply put, instead of just bitching about how you don't like the Beatles, learn everything about them. Then, you can fully identify exactly what you didn't like. Then you can do what you think will work bettter, and be justified in your reason.
Whew. I knew this philosophy degree was worth something. For more on paradigmatic thought, read Thomas Kuhn's works.
However, in order for one to create a new paradigm, there must be several flaws identified within the old paradigm structure. Intitially, these anomalies are ignored, but at some point must be addressed. In order for a new paradigm to emerge, there must be reasons for it to emerge. For example, the vaunted Beatles' techniques are no longer usable within the recording sphere. As an art form, this is perfectly plausible.
The new paradigm emerges, which leads to the phasing out of the old paradigm (which can take a while). Even after the old Beatles paradigm is left in shards, there can be a post-modernist revival of the techniques. However, this is like reverting to believing that the Sun revolves around the Earth. The old paradigm is gone, and with it the full set of ideas that allowed that paradigm to exist.
Simply put, instead of just bitching about how you don't like the Beatles, learn everything about them. Then, you can fully identify exactly what you didn't like. Then you can do what you think will work bettter, and be justified in your reason.
Whew. I knew this philosophy degree was worth something. For more on paradigmatic thought, read Thomas Kuhn's works.
It's all too much
It's all too much
When I look into your eyes
Your love is there for me
And the more I go inside
the more there is to see
It's all too much for me to take
the love that's shining all around you
Everywhere it's what you make for us to take
it's all too much
Floating down the stream of time
form life to life with me
Makes no difference where you are
or where you'd like to be
It's all too much for me to take
the love that's shining all around you
ALL THE WORLD IS BIRTHDAY CAKE
SO TAKE A PIECE BUT NOT TOO MUCH
Sell me on a silver sun
where I know that I'm free
Show me that I'm everywhere
and get me home for tea
It's all too much for me to see
the love that's shining all around you
THE MORE I LEARN, THE LESS I KNOW
and what I do it's all too much
It's all too much for me to take
the love that's shining all around you
Everywhere it's what you make for us to take
it's all too much
It's all too much
It's all too much
With your long blonde hair and your eyes of blue
With your long blonde hair and your eyes of blue
You're too much
It's all too much
When I look into your eyes
Your love is there for me
And the more I go inside
the more there is to see
It's all too much for me to take
the love that's shining all around you
Everywhere it's what you make for us to take
it's all too much
Floating down the stream of time
form life to life with me
Makes no difference where you are
or where you'd like to be
It's all too much for me to take
the love that's shining all around you
ALL THE WORLD IS BIRTHDAY CAKE
SO TAKE A PIECE BUT NOT TOO MUCH
Sell me on a silver sun
where I know that I'm free
Show me that I'm everywhere
and get me home for tea
It's all too much for me to see
the love that's shining all around you
THE MORE I LEARN, THE LESS I KNOW
and what I do it's all too much
It's all too much for me to take
the love that's shining all around you
Everywhere it's what you make for us to take
it's all too much
It's all too much
It's all too much
With your long blonde hair and your eyes of blue
With your long blonde hair and your eyes of blue
You're too much
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- re-cappin' neve
- Posts: 722
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:17 am
I can kind of see your point about a bunch of middle aged guys with pony tails putting the Beatles on a pedestal. Personally, I think there were many better sounding recordings and bands in that era alone. Just a few that come to mind -- Frank Zappa, Miles Davis, Hendrix, Sly Stone -- and none of these guys really gave a shit what the Beatles were doing, all of them were breaking rules, and forging their own paths.
paul on sgt. pepper and jimi:
'It (splhcb) certainly got noticed. It was released on the Friday, and on the Sunday Jimi Hendrix opened with "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" when we saw him at the Saville Theatre. That was the single biggest tribute for me. I was a big fan of Jimi's, and he'd only had since the Friday to learn it.'
sly:
Music came early to Sylvester Stewart, who at age four recorded his first side as a gospel singer with his nuclear family group, the Stewart Four. By high school, in Vallejo, California, he'd taken on the nickname Sly and played rock 'n' roll with Joey Piazza and the Continentals. He graduated to music theory at Vallejo Junior College and radio dj basics at the Chris Borden School of Modern Broadcasting, and went on to expand the playlist at KSOL to include tracks by Beatles, Bob Dylan, and Lord Buckley. Sly was to ingest all of these influences making a study of artists near and far to create new collages of sound.
miles:
Miles and Kenny Garrett played together in Tokyo in December 1990 at a John Lennon tribute concert. They played over a backing track of "Strawberry Fields Forever."
zappa covered beatles tunes with his own lyrics, hated the beatles (therefore gave some sort of shit). just look at the cover of we're only in it for the money.
'It (splhcb) certainly got noticed. It was released on the Friday, and on the Sunday Jimi Hendrix opened with "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" when we saw him at the Saville Theatre. That was the single biggest tribute for me. I was a big fan of Jimi's, and he'd only had since the Friday to learn it.'
sly:
Music came early to Sylvester Stewart, who at age four recorded his first side as a gospel singer with his nuclear family group, the Stewart Four. By high school, in Vallejo, California, he'd taken on the nickname Sly and played rock 'n' roll with Joey Piazza and the Continentals. He graduated to music theory at Vallejo Junior College and radio dj basics at the Chris Borden School of Modern Broadcasting, and went on to expand the playlist at KSOL to include tracks by Beatles, Bob Dylan, and Lord Buckley. Sly was to ingest all of these influences making a study of artists near and far to create new collages of sound.
miles:
Miles and Kenny Garrett played together in Tokyo in December 1990 at a John Lennon tribute concert. They played over a backing track of "Strawberry Fields Forever."
zappa covered beatles tunes with his own lyrics, hated the beatles (therefore gave some sort of shit). just look at the cover of we're only in it for the money.
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- zen recordist
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Actually, all of those guys were acutely aware of what was happening around them and applied what they liked. Frank Zappa was a master at utilizing musical cliches, Hendrix played all sort of cover tunes, and Miles started using guitar players because of how much he liked Hendrix and effects because of Sly's influence. Sure, they all did their own thing, but there wasn't a "fuck you" attitude about what was going on around them. In fact, it was quite the opposite.hammertime wrote: mind -- Frank Zappa, Miles Davis, Hendrix, Sly Stone -- and none of these guys really gave a shit what the Beatles were doing, all of them were breaking rules, and forging their own paths.
Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
This is awesome.drewbass wrote:paul on sgt. pepper and jimi:
'It (splhcb) certainly got noticed. It was released on the Friday, and on the Sunday Jimi Hendrix opened with "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" when we saw him at the Saville Theatre. That was the single biggest tribute for me. I was a big fan of Jimi's, and he'd only had since the Friday to learn it.'
sly:
Music came early to Sylvester Stewart, who at age four recorded his first side as a gospel singer with his nuclear family group, the Stewart Four. By high school, in Vallejo, California, he'd taken on the nickname Sly and played rock 'n' roll with Joey Piazza and the Continentals. He graduated to music theory at Vallejo Junior College and radio dj basics at the Chris Borden School of Modern Broadcasting, and went on to expand the playlist at KSOL to include tracks by Beatles, Bob Dylan, and Lord Buckley. Sly was to ingest all of these influences making a study of artists near and far to create new collages of sound.
miles:
Miles and Kenny Garrett played together in Tokyo in December 1990 at a John Lennon tribute concert. They played over a backing track of "Strawberry Fields Forever."
zappa covered beatles tunes with his own lyrics, hated the beatles (therefore gave some sort of shit). just look at the cover of we're only in it for the money.
I agree, but it could be argued that the Beatles get way more 'press' than all of the others.cgarges wrote:Actually, all of those guys were acutely aware of what was happening around them and applied what they liked. Frank Zappa was a master at utilizing musical cliches, Hendrix played all sort of cover tunes, and Miles started using guitar players because of how much he liked Hendrix and effects because of Sly's influence. Sure, they all did their own thing, but there wasn't a "fuck you" attitude about what was going on around them. In fact, it was quite the opposite.hammertime wrote: mind -- Frank Zappa, Miles Davis, Hendrix, Sly Stone -- and none of these guys really gave a shit what the Beatles were doing, all of them were breaking rules, and forging their own paths.
Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
Reading many history and music appreciation texts, one might think that the Beatles stood alone as innovators while the rest of the world followed in their wake. This is definitely a falsehood, and I will admit that after hearing it 10,000 times it gets a trifle grating on the ears.
I mean look at what Frank Zappa did with a tiny percentage of their budget and without George Martin. And yet he is still a fringe figure that is given but a few footnotes amidst the reams of musicological 'Beatlemania'.
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- zen recordist
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Well, the Beatles wrote much more accessible material, like it or not. I think there's plenty of validitity to that. But my comment wasn't directed at the Beatles, it was about the incredible ability of the people hammer mentioned to absorb what was around them instead of ignoring it.herodotus wrote:I agree, but it could be argued that the Beatles get way more 'press' than all of the others.
Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
So have you listened to them all?nestle wrote:JASIII wrote:I think most of the early Zappa stuff sounds pretty crappy, recording-wise.
zappa, uuuuhhhgggg, i never got the joke with him. I think with the exception electric jamima his records suck
Try perhaps "The Perfect Stranger" (played by the Ensemble Intercontemporain) or better yet his stuff as played by the Ensemble Modern ("The Yellow Shark" for starters).
There are some who claim that he was, along with Charles Ives, one of the great American composers of the twentieth century. These albums, among many others, furnish some compelling evidence for such a claim.
But enough boring Zappa talk.
Back to the timeless genius of the fab four......
sigh
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- re-cappin' neve
- Posts: 722
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:17 am
Yeah, I heard that Hendrix cover of Sgt. Peppers. What would you expect him to do? Do like Pete Townsend and say they sound like shit or that Lulu show or whatever it was? Miles Davis 1990? You've got to be kidding. Like Hendrix, he wanted to make money, too. Read his autobiography, in which he says that all that crappy English rock was just rehashed r&b riffs. Sly stone played the Beatles on his radio in the sixties, like any d.j. in the sixties. Zappa made fun of the Beatles in records like we're only in it for the money -- records which were miles ahead of that hokey little girl music those guys played. Just my opinion -- I'm sick of the Beatles. I never listen to their records, even though I own them all, and I honestly hope I never hear that banal, played out shit ever again. I'm going to get another beer.
drewbass wrote:paul on sgt. pepper and jimi:
'It (splhcb) certainly got noticed. It was released on the Friday, and on the Sunday Jimi Hendrix opened with "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" when we saw him at the Saville Theatre. That was the single biggest tribute for me. I was a big fan of Jimi's, and he'd only had since the Friday to learn it.'
sly:
Music came early to Sylvester Stewart, who at age four recorded his first side as a gospel singer with his nuclear family group, the Stewart Four. By high school, in Vallejo, California, he'd taken on the nickname Sly and played rock 'n' roll with Joey Piazza and the Continentals. He graduated to music theory at Vallejo Junior College and radio dj basics at the Chris Borden School of Modern Broadcasting, and went on to expand the playlist at KSOL to include tracks by Beatles, Bob Dylan, and Lord Buckley. Sly was to ingest all of these influences making a study of artists near and far to create new collages of sound.
miles:
Miles and Kenny Garrett played together in Tokyo in December 1990 at a John Lennon tribute concert. They played over a backing track of "Strawberry Fields Forever."
zappa covered beatles tunes with his own lyrics, hated the beatles (therefore gave some sort of shit). just look at the cover of we're only in it for the money.
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- steve albini likes it
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 11:39 am
First off, I think someone needs to get Amish the Walter Sear interview from Tape Op. Second: I'd take a few minutes to consider whether you think smelly liberal hippie-types deserve the same level of recorded quality as someone you deem worthy of the full use of your skills. We'll assume both folks are paying the same amount for you're time. Something to think over...
As for the Beatles, it's fine if you couldn't care less about the Beatles. That said, it's up to you to find something valid you can take from a Beatles-heavy day in the classroom. Take vocals being run through a Leslie, not exactly standard practice a the time. Now let's say you couldn't care less about the Beatles. What's to stop you from applying the technique(and assumption about what is and is not correct in regards to what you run through a Leslie) in a more up to date set of circumstances? I think if you're willing to get around your personal dislike of a groundbreaking band(in the technical sense) there may be a lot to learn from their way of going about getting new sounds.
As for the Beatles, it's fine if you couldn't care less about the Beatles. That said, it's up to you to find something valid you can take from a Beatles-heavy day in the classroom. Take vocals being run through a Leslie, not exactly standard practice a the time. Now let's say you couldn't care less about the Beatles. What's to stop you from applying the technique(and assumption about what is and is not correct in regards to what you run through a Leslie) in a more up to date set of circumstances? I think if you're willing to get around your personal dislike of a groundbreaking band(in the technical sense) there may be a lot to learn from their way of going about getting new sounds.
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