F@$K the F@$king Beatles!

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jamoo
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Post by jamoo » Thu May 18, 2006 9:41 am

Anti-authoritarian 'drivel' is a good thing. We don't have enough. But unless the school is promoted as a place of diversity, he should expect it to have a culture that he may or may not fit into.

I find culture conflict everywhere, so I pick the least bad choice.
dirty wrote:
Sure it's good to break rules, but your post sounds more like petulant anti-authoritarian drivel that reminds me of... me, in college. (This is NOT a good thing.)

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Post by Wolfman Sack » Thu May 18, 2006 10:43 am

I get annoyed by the same issues he does. In music - the Beatles are the ultimate reference. In literature - Shakespeare is the ultimate reference. And blah and blah. Nothing will ever be better than them. Ever.

In college, I actually had a writing teacher say that no one will ever write better works than Shakespeare.

That attitude is seriously fucked. The reason why people can overinflate importance and come up with all these theories is because they are talking about dead, inanimate works.

The Beatles aren't coming out with new albums that might suck, or that change their songwriting direction or might reframe them as less than the songwriting geniuses they've been made out to be. Static target.

Critics can come up with any half assed theory about them, who they were, what they did, and the Beatles aren't around to contest any of it. So critics and people feel safe in saying all this shit. Think about Kurt Cobain - what would he have to say about all this Rock God status slapped on him after his death, if he were here to catch wind of it? Would he still be a Rock God if he lived and got fat and bald and put out shitty solo records? What about Hendrix?

New bands though, and new music, still have the opportunity to fuck up and do bad albums. And no one can predict how important they will be in the future, as far as their place in recorded music. They are a moving target, so people can't definitively say what they are or what they represent. Next album they make might be a dance album, or a polka album, or just plain be so shitty that it makes their good albums look like a fluke. Oops. Guess they aren't geniuses after all.

So they aren't afforded any respect for what they do, certainly not as much as bands that have disbanded and been dormant for decades. Once they are "done" or finished, then people feel comfortable poking around with them.

Ok, I'm rambling here. Anyway.

My ultimate point is - use your own ears. If something feels valid and important to you, it is. Use that as your barometer and you won't care as much about what other people are trying to shove down your throat - it won't matter anyway.

The fact that your classmates are using the Neumann on everything shows that they are using Dude's tastes as their barometer because they aren't using their own.

Definitely soak up all the info you can on techniques, but apply them in your own way using your musical tastes as your compass, and you're gold.

(Steps down from soapbox)

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treble king
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Re: F@$K the F@$king Beatles!

Post by treble king » Thu May 18, 2006 11:59 am

amishsixstringer wrote:This may come off as crazy, but I'm actually tired of the beatles! Not so much the music, but all the damn hype. I'm at a recording school right now, and the beatles have been mentioned every day for 2 months. "The beatles used u47's on everything, and fairchilds, and doubled vocal takes, and put their drum mic here, and used 4 track recorders and blah blah blah". I know they were pioneers. Great. Cool. That's not even where my beef comes in. My problem is now every shmuck with a 'studio' has to do things because the beatles did it. YOU DON'T SOUND LIKE THE BEATLES! That's a good thing! You shouldn't sound like the beatles, because their music is 40 years old! Do something new and creative!
You know, the Beatles totally said that you would feel that way.

I just finished reading "Recording the Beatles" by Geoff Emerick and the funny thing is is that he comes off with the very same attitude as you. According to the book, EMI insisted that you do things by the book: i.e. Mics placed in the same spots, no close micing, no touching knobs...and as soon as no one was looking, he immediately did all those things.

So go figure. The very guy who created the 'book' on recording that you rail against, was railing against someone else's 'book' on recording.

So really, what you're saying is that you love the Beatles, and want to have sex with them. In bed.

I know, I just blew your mind out in a car.

;P
I'm in for two, and I can pay.

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Post by amishsixstringer » Thu May 18, 2006 2:42 pm

Just as a note, we had a 2 hour lecture today on the history of hip hop and the beatles came up about every 5 minutes. I think it's a conspiracy. I don't hate the beatles' music...well some of it. "Help", to me, was pretty horrible. I'm also begining to specifically detest sir Paul. That mother fucker sues EVERYONE. Too bad he just got dumped. :)


Punk Rawk! (haha)

Neil

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Re: F@$K the F@$king Beatles!

Post by cgarges » Thu May 18, 2006 9:28 pm

treble king wrote:I know, I just blew your mind out in a car.
Slick. Very slick.

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Charlotte, NC

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Gotta love those Beatles

Post by asmara » Fri May 19, 2006 7:19 am

Well I agree with alot of the sentiments everyone has shared but after listening to Mystery tour again this morning with head phones on I am always blown away at the tonal combinations and in particular the bass - it feels like its DI into my brain.

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Post by jeddypoo » Fri May 19, 2006 8:21 am

People like you are why records sound like such boring crap now. "Old records are old....let's make new records that sound new. Because it'll be better". What? People should listen with their ears, not their "ideas".

Not that you said that, really, but c'mon. Engineering is a craft, not a friggin' philosophy. You have to learn the structure before you can build your own. Personally, I'd be fucking FASCINATED to know if I were you. But maybe you want to make double-kick pedal clickly modern rock type stuff or something.
I find adherence to fantasy troubling and unreasonable.

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dirty
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Post by dirty » Fri May 19, 2006 12:16 pm

Anti-authoritarian 'drivel' is a good thing. We don't have enough.
Actually, I think we have plenty, and thanks to things like messageboards, it seems like it's everywhere, not just bathroom walls.

Just to make myself clear, I understand and appreciate drivel and its place in the world (and the times when all of us find it necessary to spew it) but that doesn't make it anything more. And it also doesn't protect the author from justified criticism.

All that said, I'll argue: "Help" is a brilliant album. And if you think the Beatles don't belong in a hip-hop discussion, you must have been under a rock when Danger Mouse arrived on the scene.

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effector
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Post by effector » Fri May 19, 2006 6:47 pm

Engineering is a craft, not a friggin' philosophy.
is that completely true? i think engineering can be approached in the same way as, say, martial arts...if you want to get wanky about it...which i don't, of course. :wink:

i'm sorry, on with the regular discussion.

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Post by wwittman » Sat May 20, 2006 11:44 am

without commenting on anything else, this jumped out at me:

>>My professor, who is a very respected producer/engineer from LA (sublime, unwritten law, pennywise, dub all stars, donna summers...) was going over a few mics in our studio and said "this nuemann mic is the best mic in the studio". Then, we got to do our 24 track projects on our own time. Upon listening to them in class, about 3 fine individuals used that mic on EVERY SINGLE FUCKING INSTRUMENT.

these are the 3 "fine individuals" who are most likely, in my opinion, to end up as good recording engineers.

They "get it" straight away.
They went right to making good sounds instead of playing with as much gear as possible.
William Wittman
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(Cyndi Lauper, Joan Osborne, The Fixx, Hooters, The Outfield...)

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Re: F@$K the F@$king Beatles!

Post by hammertime » Sat May 20, 2006 1:59 pm

I'm not all that crazy about the Beatles, but when you compare them to some of the other no-talent shit I read about in tapeop or this forum (e.g., Mike Patton in the current issue), they become alot more appealing.
amishsixstringer wrote:This may come off as crazy, but I'm actually tired of the beatles! Not so much the music, but all the damn hype. I'm at a recording school right now, and the beatles have been mentioned every day for 2 months. "The beatles used u47's on everything, and fairchilds, and doubled vocal takes, and put their drum mic here, and used 4 track recorders and blah blah blah". I know they were pioneers. Great. Cool. That's not even where my beef comes in. My problem is now every shmuck with a 'studio' has to do things because the beatles did it. YOU DON'T SOUND LIKE THE BEATLES! That's a good thing! You shouldn't sound like the beatles, because their music is 40 years old! Do something new and creative!

This isn't necessarily directed at anybody here, but mainly at the mindless twerps here that are in these "indie" (beatles tribute/cover/rip-off) bands and have bowl cuts and wire frame glasses. I'm just a bitter person about it right now. Feel free to tell me I need to know my roots and respect them and blah blah blah, but I'm 21 years old, and I have prided myself on NOT knowing what people have done in the past. This helps me not rip them off quite as easily. Maybe I'll come up with an idea that has been done. Cool. WHatever. At least I came up with it on my own with thought, rather than directly ripping it off from somebody without even listening to it. I try to use my ears instead of "Ok put the sm57 2" off center at 32.3 degrees blah blah blah" This brings me to a story.

My professor, who is a very respected producer/engineer from LA (sublime, unwritten law, pennywise, dub all stars, donna summers...) was going over a few mics in our studio and said "this nuemann mic is the best mic in the studio". Then, we got to do our 24 track projects on our own time. Upon listening to them in class, about 3 fine individuals used that mic on EVERY SINGLE FUCKING INSTRUMENT. Then you listen to their mix...mmmmm lots of juicy midrange there. I can almost distinguish the bass guitar from a hi hat! wooooo!

Ok, I'm going to stop now. I'm sorry if offended any hippies, but I go to this liberal school full of acoustic guitar strumming numbskulls who put flowers in their hair and dance around while their stoned buddy beats on his 30 dollar bongos he bought from walmart, and it gets to be a little frustrating, I suppose.

Neil

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Brett Siler
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Re: F@$K the F@$king Beatles!

Post by Brett Siler » Sat May 20, 2006 7:37 pm

hammertime wrote:I'm not all that crazy about the Beatles, but when you compare them to some of the other no-talent shit I read about in tapeop or this forum (e.g., Mike Patton in the current issue), they become alot more appealing.
haha whoa. I strongly disagree with that statement.

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red cross
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Post by red cross » Sun May 21, 2006 10:16 am

They "get it" straight away.
They went right to making good sounds instead of playing with as much gear as possible.
Possibly. Or they could have been utterly clueless and just used the "best mic" for everything just because somebody famous said so. You haven't heard the recordings in question anyway, so the "making good sounds" part is a little presumptous doncha think.

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Post by amishsixstringer » Sun May 21, 2006 6:53 pm

For the people that said I probably make lame recordings because I don't copy verbatum what every engineer has done before me: Does your wife have a 'headache' often? Just wondering. Anyhow, yeah, the recordings with all the same nuemann mic sounded like ass. Because, as was guessed, they didn't use their ears. THey just used what mr. ashworth said was the best in house and threw it wherever and hit record. Every track has the same fequency content and sounds like mud together. Groovy. Oh yeah...Your wife doesn't really have a headache...

Neil

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Post by eb. » Mon May 22, 2006 3:11 am

Weed Break.
"Tell me what we?re fighting for?
No progress ever came from war,
only a false sense of increase" G-Graffin

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