recording a kick drum with no hole

wookie · Post by **wookie** » Thu May 18, 2006 10:40 pm

I have that mic (apex 210), and I got great results with it about 2 feet from the resonant head of the kick and about 6 inches off of the floor. Also used a beta 52 on the batter side (phase reversed) for attack.
The pre on the apex was a gml, but I've gone straight to console and gotten good sound as well.

You also might consider that L47 as a FOK mic and place it kinda low. I wish I had that mic option!

Another solution for the no hole batter head would be a "sub-kick" type mic.
You could pick up a sealed enclosure and a woofer for very cheap and use the FOK or a batter mic for more attack.

Just some options!

billiamwalker · Post by **billiamwalker** » Fri May 19, 2006 9:37 am

I recorded 1 song with a drummer who tracked 1 song with the front head on and we tried to get as much oomph out of it as possible... no luck.

i took the front head off and placed the mic in the position we liked best and was easier to work with and then drapped a sleeping back over the kick drum for isolation. beautiful kick sound.

try taking the front head off.

Red Rockets Glare · Post by **Red Rockets Glare** » Fri May 19, 2006 10:41 am

I wonder how drummers feel about us deciding how their drums are going to sound. Do you guys always ask them, or do you just get things where you think they should be?

I fall somewhere in the middle depending on how much attention the drummer is paying when we're getting sounds.

If I have heard their demos for the song and they've given me a few songs by other artists to go by I'll usually just try to dial those sounds in.

grrrayson · Post by **grrrayson** » Fri May 19, 2006 10:41 am

drumsound wrote:
Who was playing drums on that? I went to college with Eric Montzka who has played a lot with her. He's an amazing drummer from an amazingly musical family.

It was Eric. He's a really nice, mellow guy. There are some really interesting and tasteful and even fun drum parts on that album. I'm really interested to hear the finished version.

jziggy314 · Post by **jziggy314** » Fri May 19, 2006 10:48 am

I've removed the resonant head on a kick as well and it changed the response of the batter head for the drummer. He never felt comfortable with it.

joninc · Post by **joninc** » Fri May 19, 2006 10:51 am

sorry - to clarify - the drummer here is meticulous with his drums/tunings/cymbals and definitely likss it with a resonant head - he even does the shredded paper inside the drum etc... it has to be there - the question is - how do you record it?

does anyone use a dynamic mic on the resonant head or usually condensers?

Red Rockets Glare · Post by **Red Rockets Glare** » Fri May 19, 2006 11:08 am

joninc wrote:
does anyone use a dynamic mic on the resonant head or usually condensers?

really depends on the type of music you're recording with him.

I've found that with the dynamic on the front head you can get a little closer without overloading the mic, and it takes up less space in a mix, but if there is space to spare, but and LDC in there.

Red Rockets Glare · Post by **Red Rockets Glare** » Fri May 19, 2006 11:09 am

joninc wrote: he even does the shredded paper inside the drum etc...

oooooh, tell us more about that trick!

grrrayson · Post by **grrrayson** » Fri May 19, 2006 11:09 am

I have heard a D112 get a good sort of thump on the front head, really close to the head and a few inches from the top. That sort of thump might be fitting for a Motown thing. However, I'd still go for a condenser if one's available that has a good low-end response--bass drums with two unported heads give (in my opinion) more of a sense of air moving; condensers pick up that "air" better.

Moreover, throughout my experience assisting, I've seen most engineers choose a condenser in situations similar to this.

thethingwiththestuff · Post by **thethingwiththestuff** » Fri May 19, 2006 11:47 am

Red Rockets Glare wrote:
joninc wrote: he even does the shredded paper inside the drum etc...
oooooh, tell us more about that trick!

sounds like we have a bonham fan here....two full heads with shredded paper inside. the only muffling bonham was known to use was shredded newspaper or something inside the drum so it would just barely cut down the ring a bit, but allow for plenty of boom. i'm not quite sure how he went about actually placing it in the drum though....

Red Rockets Glare · Post by **Red Rockets Glare** » Fri May 19, 2006 12:14 pm

thethingwiththestuff wrote:
Red Rockets Glare wrote:
joninc wrote: he even does the shredded paper inside the drum etc...
oooooh, tell us more about that trick!
i'm not quite sure how he went about actually placing it in the drum though....

well then what good are you?

If Bonham did it, maybe it was the newspapers covered in grease from his last serving of fish n' chips.

thethingwiththestuff · Post by **thethingwiththestuff** » Fri May 19, 2006 3:19 pm

or covered in something else after he "served" a shark to a groupie....

nymanji · Post by **nymanji** » Sat May 20, 2006 12:24 am

Glad this thread came up, it helps. I'm a oldie drummer and a newbie 'recorder'. I play a two-headed drum with very small multipe ports (DW makes such a head)

Misc. notes from the drummer's perspective:

Jazz to Motown, I believe, was mostly two heads. The drum sings a 'note' this way. the 'thud' hadn't really been invented yet, more or less. BeBop Jazz was usually a 20" or 18" drum, tuned high-- very much like a tom. Ringy. Many players like 1 or 2 felt strips or used an adjustable "Pratt Muffler" (basically a felt strip on a frame). And of course much was done with few mics.

Rock drums were commonly 22" or 24", with Bonham, et al going 26". I'm afraid I know squat about recording these back then...

But the technique/dynamic range/loudness/softess between old jazz and old rock is COMPLETELY different, and makes the drumset virtually a different instrument in each application... and IMHO MUCH of the drummer's sound comes from... the drummer- not the drum, so I hate to see any engineer bum out about a drumsound that started with a deficient drummer. No, really. I've seen it with my own ears...

check out http://www.saladrecords.com/bonhamfiles.htm for the infamous Bonham files. #22 is Fool in the Rain... dig the pitch bend on the bass drum! With 2 heads and a BIG drum, sinking the foot in makes the note go UP. It also creates another element in the GROOVE. This is also evident on some Buddy Rich records, etc. The pitch variation does not happen with one head/pillow.

The difference in "playing feel" between 1 and 2 heads is, er... night & day; it could be a big hurdle for a drummer to suddenly change, yes.

Slider · Post by **Slider** » Sat May 20, 2006 11:50 am

This is easy.
Make sure the drum sounds good in the room.
Then put a couple of mics on it. (beater side, resonant, whatever)
Move them around or switch them out until it sounds really good.
You're Done!

Snarky · Post by **Snarky** » Sun May 21, 2006 2:36 pm

Red Rockets Glare wrote:I wonder how drummers feel about us deciding how their drums are going to sound. Do you guys always ask them, or do you just get things where you think they should be?

I fall somewhere in the middle depending on how much attention the drummer is paying when we're getting sounds.

If I have heard their demos for the song and they've given me a few songs by other artists to go by I'll usually just try to dial those sounds in.

Yea, I kinda agree, it depends on the music. Death Metal, cut a freakin hole dude, or you can go home. Some sloppy rock or hip hoppy jazz thingy, I'll get it with no hole. If my name is going to be on it, I wanna at least say I tried to get some click from the kick.

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