recording a kick drum with no hole

[joninc]

any tips - i am recording a kick with 2 heads and no hole next week and would love some ideas to capture it well.... we are going for a vintagy motown type sound. want to get whatever oomph i can out of it.

(mic options: d112, atm 25, tlm 103, L47, 57, 441, 421, apex 210 ribbon)

[mpedrummer]

Well, I don't know that particular ribbon, but a general rule is that you should NEVER use ribbons on kick drums - too much air moving, chances are you'll kill your ribbon mic before the first take is over. Some ribbons are fine with high SPLs, though - Royers, for example, can mic a kick drum without blinking.

Anyway, I'd suggest making a "tunnel" off the front of the bass drum with two boom mic stands.

Hmm...ASCII art - let's see if I suck at this.

Code: Select all

    ________
    |      |  <- Bass Drum
    |______|  
   //      \\
  //   0    \\  <- mic stands
 //    ^     \\ 
      mic

That looked better in notepad, but you get the idea.

Drape a thick, heavy blanket (or 4) over the whole contraption, but leave the end open - you're kinda making a megaphone for the bass drum. Try the TLM103 about 6-12" back from the front head, not quite in the center, but closer to where a hole would be.

MPEDrummer

[Red Rockets Glare]

My Drummer decided to put one of those on his kick. I don't really know why. I just sneak a kick mic under the snare and mic the beater side.
Sounds dope.
I get some snare wires in the mic to boot.
It's like a two-fer.

[joninc]

cool suggestion - thanks. i am curious if any of you have tried micing the beater side too?

have you ever used a 2nd kick as a chamber in front of the main kick? i find it pretty cumbersome to rig up a chamber with heavy blankets and nothing too solid to support them.

[Red Rockets Glare]

cool suggestion - thanks. i am curious if any of you have tried micing the beater side too?

have you ever used a 2nd kick as a chamber in front of the main kick? i find it pretty cumbersome to rig up a chamber with heavy blankets and nothing too solid to support them.

Is everyone recording in the same room?
If not, why build a tunnel?
Just stick a mic at the same level as the kick and put a low pass on it to kill the cymbals.

[joninc]

i think the idea is to keep the tone without all the cymbals - there is still some nice sound in the upper register you'd lose if you cut it all out with EQ.

[mpedrummer]

Yep, the idea is to filter out as much of the cymbals as you can without losing the sound of the drum itself.

Putting a mic on the beater side will get a clickier sound, with less punch, but can be good in combo. Watch your phase, though.

MPEDrummer

[drumsound]

Another method I like the Glyn Johns method of a mic about 18" and on a angle to the front head. I did this recently with a big 26" BD. When I mixed it I used some pretty heavy compression with a slow-med attack to re-shape the envelope so the extended rumble didn't interfere with the rest of the mix.

[thethingwiththestuff]

if you try to use a second kick in front the primary one, you'll DEFINITELY need a mic on the batter head, or inside the primary kick somehow. that chambering effect would provide more "woof" and resonance, but a) probably wont add to the attack and b) probably isnt how motown did it, if you're going for some kind of authenticity.

i dont have a hole in my front head, but i generally use a d112 (though lately i'm preferring the re20) an inch or 2 in front of the kick. if there isnt enough attack, i switch my DW kick beater around to the plastic side. you can get more attack in the kick without radical eq or extra mics by switching the striking material.

[Judas Jetski]

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... ght=miking

[Red Rockets Glare]

i think the idea is to keep the tone without all the cymbals - there is still some nice sound in the upper register you'd lose if you cut it all out with EQ.

The 'upper register' of the kick is handled nicely by the beater-side mic.

[grrrayson]

I would bet that most jazz kits are recorded with only a large diaphragm condenser (like a fet 47) a little bit away from the front head. This sounds great for jazz, or maybe even an old-school sort of rock sound; I've seen (heard) this done dozens of times. I've used this on rock stuff also and really liked it. Most of us don't have a fet 47 at our disposal--but I would think any large diaphragm condenser that does well with low end would be appropriate. I once used on of those $200 silver Audio Technica mics like this on a rock sound and it worked fine.

You certainly don't need a mic on the batter head, although that will give you the most click. I've seen a D112 as well as small diaphragm condensers work well for this on the batter side.

I don't imagine that they used a ton of microphones at Motown. Honestly, I would guess that if the bass drum is tuned to sound good from an unmiked audience perspective, there's a reasonable chance you might be able to get away with 1 mic out in front. I would just set up both anyway.

Hope this helps!




On an interesting side note, when recently I got to assist Jim Anderson on the upcoming Patricia Barber album, he actually used an M/S mic really close to the front head and a small diaphragm condenser right next to the beater. Obviously, him being Jim Anderson, it sounded really good...

[Quest Poetics]

I usually always put an at4033 (or any condenser) on the beater side of the kick / under the low tom...It gives you all the snap from the kick you'll ever need...Just make sure that you oil and lube up the kick pedal because the squeaking of the pedal itself will really be apperent if there....Also you'll really like the sound of the lo tom also throught that same condenser...

Peace

[drumsound]

On an interesting side note, when recently I got to assist Jim Anderson on the upcoming Patricia Barber album, he actually used an M/S mic really close to the front head and a small diaphragm condenser right next to the beater. Obviously, him being Jim Anderson, it sounded really good...

Who was playing drums on that? I went to college with Eric Montzka who has played a lot with her. He's an amazing drummer from an amazingly musical family.

[cgarges]

When you're setting up mics, get down on your hands and knees and listen to the front head while the drummer plays. The front head is going to sound WAY different in different spots. This wil be magnified if the drum isn't tuned evenly.

Have an idea in mind of what sort of thing you'd like to hear and try to find the spot that sounds the most like that and put the mic there. (Pick a mic that will give you some of what you want to hear.) Be VERY careful about positioning. Try listening with one ear and when you find your spot, try putting your mic exactly where your ear was. Remember that the mic is capturing a very small piece of air, so the closer you can put it to what you're hearing, the more predictable your results will be.

If you find a few spots around the head that sound the same, take a few other things into consideration: Do you want to reduce cymbal or snare drum bleed? If so, will one of the spots give you less bleed? Will one allow for more flexibility in making positioning adjustments?

Then, go in the control room and listen. Use what you know about mic positioning to make adjustments.

Or you can throw all of this out the window and just put a mic near it and turn some knobs until you tweak it into submission. Either way.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC