Black Lion 002r Sound Samples A/B before-after

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eeldip
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Post by eeldip » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:58 pm

the big difference between the two API tracks is that the levels are different... they sound pretty close to me, i am hear some slight differences as well in sort of odd ways, the unmodded one seems to have a louder kick. maybe slightly less dynamic range? night and day? i dunno.

oh i see, they are two different takes... this would be more useful if it was the same take. god a/b's are hard.

however, i don't doubt that the mods will really change your end product. i mean, even slight changes can really affect a mix more than they can a track. hashy high end tends to really build up... etc...

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Derrick
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Post by Derrick » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:13 pm

So what about the diff. between the 002 modded 002 and the modded MOTU?? I think I need to get a new unit soon and this could help a lot.
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Post by puffpastry » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:40 pm

So what about the diff. between the modded 002 and the modded MOTU??
I like the 896 best, and I've said so in other threads. But that's just my opinion--you might not feel the same way if you heard them side by side. They're both good, they're just different from each other. Sorry if that doesn't help you.

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8th_note
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Post by 8th_note » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:40 pm

Am I the only one who didn't hear a difference in any of the sample except the mini-me overheads?
I had to really work at it to hear the difference; headphones helped but it's really subtle. I put the tracks into my DAW software and spent some time matching the levels as close as I could. With levels pretty close I had a hard time hearing the difference between the tracks using the same preamps. The different preamps were a much bigger difference.

Thanks, Red. This helped put things in perspective for me. Black Lion offers a mod on the Delta 1010 which is what I have and after listening to your samples I can comfortably put my recording budget into additional microphones and preamps for the time being. It seems to me that upgrading converters are something that makes sense when you pretty much have your mic collection up to snuff and you are comfortable that your preamps aren't holding you back. I'm along way from those two states of being.

I can understand the argument that everything goes through your converters and when you upgrade that part of your signal chain it should improve your whole mix but a new mic will make such a larger difference.....

Anyway, thanks again for going through the effort to record and post those clips. Good stuff.

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Red Rockets Glare
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Post by Red Rockets Glare » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:26 am

8th_note wrote:
Am I the only one who didn't hear a difference in any of the sample except the mini-me overheads?
I had to really work at it to hear the difference; headphones helped but it's really subtle. I put the tracks into my DAW software and spent some time matching the levels as close as I could. With levels pretty close I had a hard time hearing the difference between the tracks using the same preamps. The different preamps were a much bigger difference.

Thanks, Red. This helped put things in perspective for me. Black Lion offers a mod on the Delta 1010 which is what I have and after listening to your samples I can comfortably put my recording budget into additional microphones and preamps for the time being. It seems to me that upgrading converters are something that makes sense when you pretty much have your mic collection up to snuff and you are comfortable that your preamps aren't holding you back. I'm along way from those two states of being.

I can understand the argument that everything goes through your converters and when you upgrade that part of your signal chain it should improve your whole mix but a new mic will make such a larger difference.....

Anyway, thanks again for going through the effort to record and post those clips. Good stuff.
I hear the most difference in the Clock upgrade, not the converters, and I wonder if these samples are suffering from bad clocking when you folks are listening back, because the difference I hear when I listen back to them is anything but sublte.

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8th_note
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Post by 8th_note » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:33 pm

I hear the most difference in the Clock upgrade, not the converters, and I wonder if these samples are suffering from bad clocking when you folks are listening back, because the difference I hear when I listen back to them is anything but sublte.
That's very interesting. I completely agree with GCMan; by far the most different sounding of the tracks is the mini me overheads. The cymbal sound is quite different from any of the other tracks. If you think that the difference between the modded and unmodded clocks is greater than the difference between the mini me overheads and the other tracks that is really wierd and bears further investigation.

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Post by zesbez » Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:39 pm

Hmmm... the unmodded Digi 002 is a little harsh in the 4K range which would kill when stacking. The BLA mod seems a little more balanced and slightly more open. The original 002 pres overall have more meat but that could be differences in volume.

I preferred the modded 002 with the Mini-Me myself.

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red cross
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Post by red cross » Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:58 pm

Are the lightpipe I/Os working ok after the mod? Any odd behaviour?

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Red Rockets Glare
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Post by Red Rockets Glare » Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:38 am

red cross wrote:Are the lightpipe I/Os working ok after the mod? Any odd behaviour?
Lightpipe I/O's work just dandy. I had BL mod my Alesis AI-3 as well.

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Post by runrunrun » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:51 pm

do you notice much of a difference in terms of sonics between the 002 converters and the modded AI3? ive been thinking of snagging an AI3 and getting it BLA modded to use in conjunction with my BLA digi 001 (clock and converters) do you find much noticable difference between the two or is it pertty negligble?

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Post by Red Rockets Glare » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:14 pm

out of tune wrote:do you notice much of a difference in terms of sonics between the 002 converters and the modded AI3? ive been thinking of snagging an AI3 and getting it BLA modded to use in conjunction with my BLA digi 001 (clock and converters) do you find much noticable difference between the two or is it pertty negligble?
The AI-3 converters seem a bit less beefy to me, so I don't use them for kick and snare, but they serve nicely for guitars, and for getting 8 extra outs of the 002. I'd be seriously screwed without that Alesis box. I've come to depend on mixing out of the box to tie in things like my plate and spring reverbs, echoplex, and various comps.

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Post by jackson park » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:53 pm

I didn't listen to the A12 comparisons but from the 002 pre's I could hear a difference.

The unmodded had something louder in the highs and sounded harder as a result with the bass attack being softer. the modded sounded the opposite, softer highs and a punchier bottom end.

the mini me sounded a little clearer in the highs than the modded without the hardness of the unmodded one.

I have very little experience so pounds of salt please.

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