"One more take" or "That one's a keeper!"

[surf's up]

What kind of role do you usually take in helping the band keep the flow of the session going when it comes to decisions like that? Usually the performer will never get it absolutely perfect, but how long until they are satisfied that it's 'good enough'?

Im assuming it must depend on things like budget, quality of the musicians, expectations of the band, whethere they have outwardly solicited your help as an objective ear, etc...

As I do more sessions on a more professional, paying-client level, I feel more of an obligation to strike the best balance, and Ive found that the kids recording with me generally value my input; it also seems that as an engineer often I am the only one who can settle a disagreement between members since they turn to me as an objective observer whose only interest is in the betterment of the project.

Just wondered what ya'lls thoughts on this kind of thing were and how you approach it...

[???????]

I think it seriously depends. I do a lot of freelance/session work (I'm a pro musician, not an engineer) and the best engineers I've worked with have had the quality of "transparency." They dial up the sounds and the click quickly, do all punches flawlessly, and don't try to produce. If you make a suggestion re: a mic they will discuss it with you as far as what type of sound you are trying to get... but otherwise they stay out of it creatively. It is my experience that with good (seasoned pro) players, the result will always be better and more important everyone in the studio will be happier and the "vibe" will be better.

Now in the case of a young band who might not know very much about recording in the studio, that might be a different story... but maybe not. I think the general rule in life as well as music is, if you make a habit of keeping yr mouth shut most of the time, then when you DO offer a suggestion, people listen more.

There are also cases when people choose a specific engineer just FOR the sound that engineer is known for getting... in that case they're 'part of the band' as far as I'm concerned and all suggestions are welcome.

[brian beattie]

I prefer to get a pretty good take and move on to the next thing, leaving the mic and pre and amp-whatever set up. Listen in a few minutes, or later on in the day. You'll know alot better after some time has passed whether it has the stuff.
brian

[Snarky]

Since I have my own place and people trust me, I'll usually not let a bad take slide. Because if you do that bad take grows into a giant ingrown toenail that you couldn't remove with a sawsall. So get it right. You also have to make people smile and chill out if they can't get it, then they do, but they think it's bad, and they hop the train to negative "everything I do sucks" town, and I will try my hardest to steer someone off that track. It's a fine balance, and it does help to keep your mouth shut when you can, but if the minutes start burning away, and everyone is slowly getting miserable, you should step in and offer ideas to get back on the train to "taketown".

[cgarges]

For me, it's pretty much dependent on budget and the clients' experience and ability. They usually know when they've got a take that they like. Sometimes, if someone's unsure or something, I'll ask if they'd like to do another. Unless they're really in a time crunch situation, they'll go for another and if it's better, cool. At some point, everyone arrives at a kind of "the last take was better" decision and at that point, that take becomes the keeper. There are also times when everyone just flat-out knows that was the take as soon as it's done, but that's far more common with people that have a fair amount of recording experience.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[drumsound]

Especially with young bands I will tell them why I think they should keep a take or do another. I try to guide them through the process as much as possible. With more experienced cats I have to do a lot less of that and they will know why a take is the keeper or not. Of course budget, time of the session, difficulty of the songs, coolness of the song etc all comes into play.

[8th_note]

The biggest problem I've had is with young bands who have written music beyond their ability to play it. If they try it five or six times and it's getting worse I have to step in. I try to be as diplomatic as I can but there have been a few times where I've had to suggest changes in their parts and arrangements so we could get something laid down.

More generally, darfking put it well. I have never regretted spending extra time or pushing the band to get a better take. I have definitely regretted letting something go that I knew wasn't as good as it should be and then having to live with it.

[Jim_Boulter]

For me, don't be content with a passable track that will do okay. Go for the exclamation point after "That one's a keeper!" Then take one more anyway. If the next one has more energy, better feel, better pitch, - whatever - and you didn't bother to even track it...

Of course, there can be time/money issues, but if you're that close, what will an extra 5 minutes really hurt? Weigh that against the good that can come from it! (Of course you can't do this on every overdub of every song. That could turn into days and thousands of dollars.) When it isn't close, make changes or send the band home to practice! Or move on to something else for now, and come back to this problem from a fresh perspective with some success under your collective belt.

"One more take" only works to a point. After the burnout and tedium hits, move on.

[drumsound]

BTW did you all see Last Month's Sticky?

[Rigsby]

I'm tracking a guy at the moment who just can't get the parts down, it's lack of experience in the studio on his part i think, just because you can play it once at your house to your internal tempo doesn't mean you're going to be able to get it when the recording light goes on, you've asked for a click track and you're feeling the pressure. It's difficult, sometimes i suggest we break it down to sections so he can get each part right and then move and we'll comp it, but he rarely goes for that. It's becoming a bit of a pain tbh. He's convinced he can get it right but it's clear that he can't, and usually takes offense when i suggest we break it into sections.

Ah, what can you do eh?

[???????]

Ah, what can you do eh?

Sit back and get paid!

[drumsound]

Ah, what can you do eh?

Sit back and get paid!

Pretty much...

[NewAndImprov]

I'm tracking a guy at the moment who just can't get the parts down, it's lack of experience in the studio on his part i think, just because you can play it once at your house to your internal tempo doesn't mean you're going to be able to get it when the recording light goes on, you've asked for a click track and you're feeling the pressure. It's difficult, sometimes i suggest we break it down to sections so he can get each part right and then move and we'll comp it, but he rarely goes for that. It's becoming a bit of a pain tbh. He's convinced he can get it right but it's clear that he can't, and usually takes offense when i suggest we break it into sections.

Ah, what can you do eh?

I've been working with someone like that lately. I've tried gently recommending that they practice to a click track at home, the response has been, "Yeah, I tried that, and it felt kind of wierd." Like it will not feel wierd in the studio? WTF?

[mjau]

There's definitely something to be said for being a studio-ready musician, versus just being a live show-ready one. I've played in too many bands that couldn't hide behind too-loud amps and a drunk audience to make up for the inherent sloppiness that rears its head in the confines of the studio.
With bass, I almost always prefer a comp, because invariably I end up playing a little harder and a little better as I get into the groove of a song.

[Rigsby]

I'm tracking a guy at the moment who just can't get the parts down, it's lack of experience in the studio on his part i think, just because you can play it once at your house to your internal tempo doesn't mean you're going to be able to get it when the recording light goes on, you've asked for a click track and you're feeling the pressure. It's difficult, sometimes i suggest we break it down to sections so he can get each part right and then move and we'll comp it, but he rarely goes for that. It's becoming a bit of a pain tbh. He's convinced he can get it right but it's clear that he can't, and usually takes offense when i suggest we break it into sections.

Ah, what can you do eh?

I've been working with someone like that lately. I've tried gently recommending that they practice to a click track at home, the response has been, "Yeah, I tried that, and it felt kind of wierd." Like it will not feel wierd in the studio? WTF?

I've given him click tracks to go home with and it does get better after that, often he still can't make the changes but will at least come back and suggest we record it in two or three parts so he can get ready with that tricky chord in the bridge or whatever. It always has to come from him though, if i suggest it he'll get uppity, his pride'll be shaken a little and he gets defensive. Hey ho, these things are sent to trial us etc etc.