PC compaerable to Mac

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hammertime
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Post by hammertime » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:32 pm

I don't know. I've been running my Pentium 3, 1 ghz, which is what I was using for printing/web/pornosurfing until I bought my HP a few months ago. It never broke, except for the powersupply, which happened during a lightning storm, and took me about 20 dollars to fix. Basically, the computer that I built from parts I bought at the local pc shop lasted as long as it should have. It still works, but it wasn't fast enough to play these video games, and do other fun stuff. I have never had a virus -- ever. I've downloaded tons of cracked software. I've looked at a million obscene websites. I've even opened attachments. Because if I do get a virus -- I don't care. I back everything up anyway. I just load up Norton Ghost, boot up, and do a complete reinstallation. Takes about ten minutes.
As I did, five years ago, I sought to make an informed consumer decision about my next purchase. Not being a computer scientist, I read everything I could get my hands on for about a week. As I did five years ago, and five years before that, I took a serious look at Macs. People like them. They get good reviews. But they're overpriced for what you're getting. Say what you want. They get their hardware from the exact same gargantuan corporations that cookie cut this shit in some factory in China. They just put some brushed aluminum on it, and put the apple logo on it, and mark it up about 3 times what they should.
stratology wrote:Initial cost of Macs is higher than PCs, cost in the long run is an entirely different story.

I've heard the argument that the reason for more viruses on PCs vs. Macs is the higher number of PC users before. Check the numbers: there are 114,000 Windows viruses, there is not a single OS X virus out in the wild. Compare this to the number of Windows users vs. Mac users, it's totally out of proportion.
Windows shipped for ages with network ports open, ports on OS X are closed by default. Security flaws in MSIE and Outlook were widely published. OS X requires an admin password to install any softs. (no Spyware, ever...). The Unix foundation of OS X is open source, which means over 20 years of time to find and fix possible security holes.
This doesn't mean that viruses on Macs are impossible, just that there's a better foundation.

About AMD, no doubt these are good chips. I guess the reason that Apple went for Intel instead of AMD is that they wanted to avoid the problems they had with IBM, who were not able to deliver enough processors, and failed to meet targets for clock speed. And they have details about Intels roadmap. But all of this is speculation, nobody outside of Apple knows the real motives behind their decisions.


Real world performance is not the same as processor performance. Antivirus software, for example, always causes a performance hit, as all files written to the HD have to be scanned, and apps have to be monitored for unusual behaviour. So if you use a machine that does not require antivirus software, you'll see and advantage that does not show up in processor benchmarks.

The only valid way to compare performance on Macs to Windows boxes, IMHO, is to use them side by side in a real world situation. This includes installation of OS and audio apps, how well peripherals work, stability, track count, fan noise, and lots more. If you isolate one single thing, for example speed of file search (in which Windows of 2006 lags far behind even Mac OS 8.6 of the 90s, regardless of processor type, clock speed, memory, front side bus, speed of hard disk,...), you'll get results that are not too meaningful.

stratology
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Post by stratology » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:01 am

hammertime wrote:But they're overpriced for what you're getting.

here we go again... :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Post by b3groover » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:58 am

stratology wrote:
hammertime wrote:But they're overpriced for what you're getting.

here we go again... :roll: :roll: :roll:
Why is it so hard for you to come to terms with the fact that for some people's particular situation, a Mac is overpriced? If I was using my computer for games and music, like hammertime, a Mac would definitely be overpriced. However, if I was making my living doing video editing, intense graphic work (Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark, etc.) as well as music, then a Mac would be worth it's weight in gold (although you can put together a good PC to do this... however, personally, I think Final Cut is the best video editing software out there and makes the price of a Mac well worth it for that particular application).

And, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, for someone like me who paid good money for Cubase SX, moving over to the Mac platform would require updating all my software (including plugs) which is an expensive proposition and factors into your TCO idea, much more-so than virus software and the like.

stratology
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Post by stratology » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:02 pm

Today on the Macfixit site:

***

WSJ MacBook Review
The Wall Street Journal has a glowing MacBook review. "Perhaps the most surprising thing about the MacBook is its price. Despite Apple's reputation for charging more, the MacBook is actually less expensive than its closest major Windows competitor. That would be the Sony Vaio VGN-SZ240, which also has a 13.3-inch screen with the same resolution, includes a built-in camera, and is available with the same processor and the same memory and hard-disk capacity as the MacBook."


***

hammertime
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Post by hammertime » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:14 pm

If the ipod's analagous to their computers, here is my criticism. It looks great -- brushed aluminum, it's even kind of fun to use. But ... Can you even change the fucking battery without paying 100 dollars or whatever it is (like you can with the Creative Zen?)? The 20 dollars I spent on my power supply that I fried on my pc -- I couldn't do that with a mac (or at least you couldn't back in the day). I went to buy some of those earbuds at the store for my ipod-- the ones that said "Apple" on them cost, I can't remember, something like 25 or 30 dollars. I didn't buy it. I bought a set of three headphones from Radio Shack, one of which was shaped like an earbud for 10 dollars for the set. So that's around 3 or 4 dollars. And guess what, it sounded no worse, and arguably I thought it sounded a bit better than the earbuds that Apple sells for about 10 times as much money (they weren't as "stylish" though, even though they were functionally the same). Apple stuff is just plain overpriced, hyped with all these Gandhi commercials, and, true it looks cool and is user friendly, but I like tweaking stuff anyways.

hammertime
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Post by hammertime » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:50 pm

And one more thing. This Itunes software doesn't work. I know how much Apple spends advertising themselves as being this great hip lifestyle alternative to Windows -- but the first time I burned an itunes playlist to a cd, I burned a bad disc (and it isn't my burner). When I imported my library to another computer, it recategorized everything, so that I can't even get my podcasts. The windows file system may be boring, utilitarian, whatever --but it least it works.
hammertime wrote:If the ipod's analagous to their computers, here is my criticism. It looks great -- brushed aluminum, it's even kind of fun to use. But ... Can you even change the fucking battery without paying 100 dollars or whatever it is (like you can with the Creative Zen?)? The 20 dollars I spent on my power supply that I fried on my pc -- I couldn't do that with a mac (or at least you couldn't back in the day). I went to buy some of those earbuds at the store for my ipod-- the ones that said "Apple" on them cost, I can't remember, something like 25 or 30 dollars. I didn't buy it. I bought a set of three headphones from Radio Shack, one of which was shaped like an earbud for 10 dollars for the set. So that's around 3 or 4 dollars. And guess what, it sounded no worse, and arguably I thought it sounded a bit better than the earbuds that Apple sells for about 10 times as much money (they weren't as "stylish" though, even though they were functionally the same). Apple stuff is just plain overpriced, hyped with all these Gandhi commercials, and, true it looks cool and is user friendly, but I like tweaking stuff anyways.

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Post by jegler » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:10 pm

haha hammertime and stratology dukin it out over Mac v. PC. I've used both platforms and they BOTH suck!! OSX just turned itself into a Windows interface with better drop shadows - and the Windows interfacesucked to begin with! But hey, its not like I could write code for anything better...

Knights Who Say Neve
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Post by Knights Who Say Neve » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:42 pm

b3groover wrote: ... which you can get for free but I don't use anti-virus software on my music machine (yes, I go online, but only to get updates and not check email... that's what my office machine is for.) However, if you are using your music machine for that, get free anti-virus software that is far superior to McAfee, Norton, etc., at http://free.grisoft.com/doc/1.
Thanks for the tip. The antivirus software on my laptop had just expired and this fits the bill perfectly.
Last edited by Knights Who Say Neve on Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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b3groover
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Post by b3groover » Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:39 am

I've been using AVG on all my computers (sans my music one) and putting it on all my friends computers for years. It's a great program... small, not a memory hog, doesn't eat up a bunch of resources, does what it's supposed to do and stays out of the way. And it's free. Can't beat that.

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Post by Tim Casey » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:02 am

Although it's really entertaining to watch you guys dump on each other, I'd like to address the original post:

If you're going to switch platforms to save a little money, you're in for an awfully big headache. I wouldn't think the price-to-aggravation ratio would be worth it.

I got a 1.8 GHz G5 iMac for $720 from the Apple Store a few months ago. Keep checking their store's refurbished special deals on their website. You can get a damn good machine from them, fully waranteed, for pretty cheap. It might take a month of checking the site, though.

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Post by jeddypoo » Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:27 am

I'd say Windows is the real issue here. If you could reliably run OSX on a PC, it would change a lot, but although I know you CAN load OSX onto a PC, I'm not sure if it runs well enough to do anything as intensive as audio recording without major issues.

Windows is fucking bogus. I don't know why people try to defend it. It's counter-intuitive, clumsy, ugly, convoluted, buggy, and generally un-fun. When you're doing something as complicated as running a DAW setup, I don't see why you would want to deal with such a poorly designed operating system environment, when just the audio software/hardware/plugin matrix can be headachey sometimes.
I find adherence to fantasy troubling and unreasonable.

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Quest Poetics
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Post by Quest Poetics » Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:09 pm

I own both a pc and mac and I wouldn't dream of actually using my pc for music...PC's are freaking nightmares in terms of stability....I've literally never had issues w/ loosing files etc. in the 7 years I've been recording within OSX...PCs are great for certain things(games, porn), I just would never use windows for anything that is actually important...OSX is so freaking stable it's ridiculous.....Go get a used mac...Hell I still am using a G4 dual 1.25 ghz that you can get for $800 used these days and run 32 tracks w/ all the plugins you'd possibly need...Go mac for audio, go PC for porn....I speak from experience because like I said, I have both types of computers in my house..

Peace!
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Podcast where we review gear as well as drop Guitars / Beatboxing / Freestyle rhyme one week and the following episode you hear the fully produced track.

Peace and keep recording!!!

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Post by John Jeffers » Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:37 pm

Sound Campaign wrote:I own both a pc and mac and I wouldn't dream of actually using my pc for music...PC's are freaking nightmares in terms of stability....I've literally never had issues w/ loosing files etc. in the 7 years I've been recording within OSX...
Last album I did with another engineer, he was using DP 4 on an OSX Mac. We lost about 2 hours in the studio when the Mac crashed and he had to do some kind of magic to recover lost audio files.

The point is, it happens on both platforms.

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Post by Scodiddly » Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:21 pm

John Jeffers wrote: The point is, it happens on both platforms.
Ah, but the real point is how often it happens on each program. The other day I spent about half an hour trying to figure out why the wireless access point at work was acting weird... ultimately it turned out that my MacBook needed to be rebooted. Now if it had been Windows that would have been the first or second thing I try, but needing to reboot in the OS X world is incredibly rare.

Actually Windows is a lot better than it used to be. But at least as far as stability and security goes, it's not as good as OS X.

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