RADAR, savior or the devil?

[Xtopher]

I've heard many people ranting and raving about RADAR V and RADAR 24 systems. I've also heard a couple people say that the systems aren't solid and won't hold up to rigorous work. Does anyone own a RADAR system for themselves? And if so, what are your thoughts and opinions in comparison with tape as well as DAWs like Pro Tools? TapeOp hasn't really talked much of the system.

I'm not big on the whole "Oh, tape is God and digital sucks" war, I think they both have good and bad things to offer, but I'm curious to explore RADAR, and its pros and cons. Thanks

(P.S. My apologies for this post being in Recording Techniques instead of Equipment, it's been a long day)

[Spark]

I've also heard a couple people say that the systems aren't solid and won't hold up to rigorous work.

Ive used a few and they are designed to be total workhorses. They sound great and are pretty much bulletproof. The only downfall is that you cant do all of the silly micro editing that protools can do, in some ways that might be a plus!

[Mix413]

Coming from a diehard analog fan, let me say that Radar is an awesome system. We started with an Otari Radar II and are currently using a Radar 24 Nyquist. As a standalone system it is easy to use, sounds awesome, is very reliable, smartly designed and their tech staff is as good as you'll ever find in this or any other business. Makes a great front or back end to a ProTools rig too. It's a computer, but when you're in a session, it feels like your using a tape machine, both in function and sound. Our engineers and clients love it. We've swayed quite a few producers also.

If a project is one that requires extensive editing or manipulation, then we transfer the files into PT, but always route it through the Radar converters back to the console for mixing.

Ever heard of a Radar owner who wasn't happy with it?

[cgarges]

I've also heard a couple people say that the systems aren't solid and won't hold up to rigorous work.

I'd love to talk to someone who said something like this.

Does anyone own a RADAR system for themselves? And if so, what are your thoughts and opinions in comparison with tape as well as DAWs like Pro Tools?

I finally bought one of my own last year after doing the vast majority of my projects over the last five years on them. It got to a point where that was a major factor in my decision to book a particular studio. I've had issues with them twice in that time period, both were the same problem on two different machines that happened within a month of each other. There was an issue with some weird hard drives in the early versions of the RADAR 24s and those problems were related to that. I had backups of my projects and didn't lose any audio, although it did cost me a day worth of work in one of those cases. iZ was very helpful in terms of dealing with the situation.

Aside from that, it's rock-solid. The ONLY two other formats I know that are as stable and reliable as RADAR are the Alesis HD24 and the Fairlights.

As far as holding up to rigorous work, I've got a good example of their reliablility. I did some tour rehearsals for Aaliyah a few years before she died. They were taking a few of these units (this was back in the Otari days) on the road to play the backing tracks for a tour. A TOUR. A ROAD GIG. No one ever expressed any concern about the stability of the systems, even back then.

It sounds great, doesn't crash, and is stupid-simple to operate. I opened the manual once in the first three years I worked on them. I've mixed a bunch of projects on them that were done on other platforms (I'm mixing a project tracked in Digital Performer starting this weekend) and have exported broadcast wavs for others to work on on a number of occasions without a hitch.

There was an interesting article on Death Cab For Cutie in Mix a couple issues back. In it, Chris Walla talked about a passion he saw in RADAR users for the medium that he didn't see in any other digital systems. While I'd never really thought about it in those terms, after reading it, I realized he was totally right.

For the money I spent, I could have bought a number of different systems. I'm totally happy with my purchase.

If you do a search, you'll see plenty of comments from happy users around here.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Xtopher]

Awesome awesome. Thanks a ton guys. To be honest, I don't think I can recall anyone I know who OWNS a RADAR not being happy with it, the ones that crap talk are non-owners who have only used them infrequently. It seems to me like everyone I know who owns a RADAR system is completely happy with it being their only recording device, even in big budget studios like Chris Walla's (I actually read that article in Mix, and it's what really sparked my interest to potentially take the plunge, because I greatly respect Walla's work with Death Cab, Decemberists, Hot Hot Heat, etc.

My ex bandmate actually owns the system as well and says it's basically the beautiful feel of using tape without the tape machine maintenance, and with much more convenience (not to mention the lack of a need for oh-so-expensive tape). Boys (and girls? perhaps), I think I am sold.

[pwrb]

Just came across this thread...Sounds like you're all set, but I wanted to toss in my two cents...
I've been using a RADAR 24 system for three years. It sounds great (though I can't say it sounds "like tape"), I've had very few technical issues (and have always been able to talk to tech support when needed), and basically I'm totally happy with it. My only slight beefs: I sometimes wish there was a bit more editing resolution, and a Firewire interface would be super-handy (I'm told they're working on the FW thing.)
If you take the plunge, you'll be psyched.
-Pete

www.weissy.com

[???????]

I tracked my last album on the Radar 24 system and mixed to 1/2". That is a great combination, I would suggest trying it sometime if you haven't. A lot easier than setting up the 2" machine and on a budget it really saves on tape costs.

I found the system very easy to use. The engineer showed me the basic keystrokes and I was off and running from there.

[Fletcher]

I've been on RADAR's for over 4 years now. I'm running a RADAR V "Nyquist" and have never been happier. It sounds great, it works like a tape machine [remote wise, punching wise] but has the backup capabilities of a digital machine and some of the creative control events I never had in analog... like being able to slide tracks "on the tape" a couple of milliseconds and doing volume changes that are now imbedded in the song as well as programming the fade out on the actual tracks [which gives me the ability to do all kinds of balance changes as the song heads towards the grass... which is something I've always dug doing but could never store like this before].

I've never had one crash and I've moved all around the country with mine [in it's original shipping box... I haven't gotten around to buying a road case for the thing yet].

On the live recording end it's a wet dream. I set up my track list with names in a Macro then between songs I hit "NEW PROJECT" hit the Macro... then record. While the song is in progress I name the project and take whatever other relevant notes there are while I'm listening to the song go down.

In a couple of weeks I'm going to be starting a live album for a friend. We're going to set up the band in recording space and work out what we're doing for sounds, signal paths, microphone selection and placement.

We'll do 3 days of pre-production like this and then move out to the venue. We can get into the venue the night before the shows start [it's a club thing so we can get in Thursday night after that show has loaded out]... then it'll be 4 sold out shows over Friday and Saturday from which we should get the album. From there we'll back up all the drives and send the main drives up to the artist's studio where he'll plug the SCSI drive from the original RADAR recordings into his Pro-sTools rig and open the sessions as if they were recorded natively on the P-T rig [the RADAR is the ONLY unit that records to it's drives in BWAV files and "flattens" them during the recording process].

He'll add whatever "fixes" / overdubs he feels appropriate then the drive will come back down to The Methods and Applications Laboratory [my studio] where we'll back it up again and then mix.

The whole album should cost less than $10k to produce [expenses like Moi, my assistant, his band, his crew, the engineer for the overdubs, pre-production and mixing time in The Meth Lab, food, transportation, hotel rooms for the cast and crew while we're on location, media, incidentals, mastering, etc.]... and seeing that his previous product has done over 175k units... he should come out of this smelling like a rose [while I cvetch that I didn't get paid enough].

While I've seen shit like this done on other machines I've also seen crashes in the middle of performance... I've seen people lose entire shows two songs before the end of the set... I've seen other situations where the band got held up by the technology. Besides sounding as good as anything I've EVER heard, I've never seen a RADAR crash on a live gig... all of which adds up to a win, win, win scenario in my world... but as always, YMMV.

Peace

[kayagum]

Thread aside (hopefully not hijack).

I can vouch for the rabid loyalty to RADAR on this board, and I can also vouch for the reliability of the HD24. So far, I'm batting a 1.000 on the HD24- live gigs, foley work, theater sound design.

If you search, you'll probably see some disgruntled posts on the proprietary Alesis OS on the hard drives (and as far as I can recall, only on the Masterlink), but this was after the complainers failed to back up the drives. With the Fireport, it's as simple as winding down the drive caddy, plug it into the Fireport, and fly all your tracks into your PC. It's fast, it's easy, it's a crime not to have backups when it's this straightforward.

Reconnect to the thread:
I'm thinking that this approach (standalone digital recorder, possible PC editing/plugin work, mixdown either in the box or outside tape/box) is good for anyone who doesn't already have a chunk of change invested in a good analog multitracker. It's a good balance of sonic quality, editing capability, reliability and the ability to crank out a lot of good tracks in a timely fashion.

Whether it's higher end (RADAR), higher end (Fairlight) or more affordable (HD24), it all seems to work great.[/quote]

[wayne kerr]

I... uhhhh... well, would still rather work with tape....

*ducks*

[wayne kerr]

But I wouldn't say that RADAR is either a savior or the devil. I've used 'em (don't own one) and have found it to be a reliable machine - and easier to learn than PT (which could be the devil). Just not as easy on my ears as a well-oiled (and, ahem, properly-aligned) Studer...

[wayne kerr]

Of course, if you look closely at my avatar, you might discover I'm slightly biased... oh! biased. pun intended!

[kayagum]

But I wouldn't say that RADAR is either a savior or the devil. I've used 'em (don't own one) and have found it to be a reliable machine - and easier to learn than PT (which could be the devil). Just not as easy on my ears as a well-oiled (and, ahem, properly-aligned) Studer...

You're lucky because you already have a Studer

It's silicon for the rest of us...

[wayne kerr]

But I wouldn't say that RADAR is either a savior or the devil. I've used 'em (don't own one) and have found it to be a reliable machine - and easier to learn than PT (which could be the devil). Just not as easy on my ears as a well-oiled (and, ahem, properly-aligned) Studer...

You're lucky because you already have a Studer

It's silicon for the rest of us...

Depends on how you define lucky!

But of course, I can buy tape now, so yeah... s'coo! I thought for a minute there I had an very expensive boat anchor on my hands.

[drumsound]

I bought a RADAR 24 Nyquist when I realized I was losing some business because I was a totally analog facility. I've been quite happy with the system. It sounds great, is really reliable and really simple to use. My workflow does not change when I have to switch from the tape deck to the RADAR. It can do more things than the tape deck, but it doesn't have to . There aren't 29 menus, pull-downs, screen and prompts just to start recording a song. Turn it on, hit channel record buttons and hit record. SIMPLE.

I do wish the zoom went in farther, but other than that the thing rocks.

I did a two-night live recording shortly after I got it. The thing just hummed along for about 100 minutes a night like it was nothing.

I'd still rather use tape, but when I can't I'm happy to use the RADAR. I've even dumped some things to it to edit and it worked like a charm.