Auxiliary sends and Inserts on an analog desk

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huck.finn
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Auxiliary sends and Inserts on an analog desk

Post by huck.finn » Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:03 pm

I'm new here so hi! I'm kind of a newbie to recording (did it for 4 years now, but only in a daw) and recently made my move to an analog desk. But i'm in trouble here. I bought some fx units and stuff, comps and i'm really having trouble hooking these things up to the board. If you guys would help me out here i'dd be very thankful, i'm sure this is pretty simple, but i'm afraid to get the wrong cabling.

This much i know, everything is unbalanced right? I'm sure of that. I have a Microverb II for verbs, and an old DBX thing, 118 or 117, something like that, wich has RCAs in the back. Now, i know both units are stereo, and there's like a left aux send as well as a right one for each return. So how can i make this work? Y cabling? The inserts are really breaking my head, because in my mind, it's like, I have a stereo in and a stereo out on the DBX thing, but only one insert per channel on the desk. How can i make it work? Plugging a Y cable into the insert, then the 2 RCAs into the stereo in on the DBX, but then what comes out of the stereo out, where the hell will i plug that?

Geezz..sorry. Just getting a little above my head here. Thanks for the help.




PS. By the way, not wanting to post yet another thread, i'm searching for a DI for bass (with passive pickups) and (high impendance unbalanced) old mics..should i look for an active or passive one? Why?

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trodden
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Post by trodden » Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:03 pm

welcome to the board!

well, i don't have much of an answer but i'm sure someone will come along. Does your DBX unit work independently as two separate channels? if yes, then yeah one channel for whatever you plug your insert cable into. I do most effects in the box but use outboard comps via insert cables when i send the mix out in stems. So i'm not much help, and the bottle of wine i've had tonight was quite tasty. I'm sure someone will have a better answer.

Cheeers.

blakbeltjonez
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Post by blakbeltjonez » Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:55 am

well, your inserts are mono no matter how you slice it - tip is usually send, ring return back to the channel and the sleeve is the common ground. the dBx has two non-independent channels, so you would use an insert cable for each channel. bear in mind you probably wouldn't want to send two different types of material into the 118, as the dominant track will affect the other.

the midiverb you just want to come off one of the aux sends, it's a mono-in unit (even though it has L&R inputs) so you can just do mono in. if you have a stereo aux return you can use that for the midiverb's output, or if you have enough open channels, come back in on a pair of channels.

what kind of board did you get? if you have any subgroups, that's probably where i'd stick the 118, for drums and bass. the other thing you probably want to get at some point is a patch bay so you can just patch stuff where you need it.



so, to recap - the 118 will need *two* insert cables, one insert cable will be for the left side of the 118 (input and output, if you get no signal swap the two), and the other insert cable will be for the right side of the 118. that pretty much chains you down to using the 118 on a pair of channels unless you have a patch bay wired up for all the inserts, a better option might be across the inserts of a subgroup. midiverb on an aux send, not on the insert.

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Post by drumsound » Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:08 am

The insert cables mentioned will be a "Y" cable with a Tip-Ring-Sleeve (often called stereo) plug that fans to two RCA (L+R) for you DBX or two 1/4 (Tip-Sleeve) for other units.

The Midiverb should be able to run stereo or mono in as you see fit. Run it from an aux send(s) so you can vary what goes to it at what level independently of how the sources are mixed. If you have open channels you can return it to them and have EQ, faders and mutes for the effects, plus you can also compress the return if you wish.

Consoles are all about signal flow. When I first started it was quite confusing to me. I would sit with a piece of paper and figure out what signal was going and coming from where to where. Now it's second nature.

Good luck and have fun.

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wayne kerr
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Post by wayne kerr » Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:21 am

Generally, you're not gonna want to insert reverbs and delays cuz you'll want them available on a bus for multiple feeds. Dynamics and EQ you generally do want to insert for a number of reasons, primarilly to maintain unity gain through the signal path.

That said, unless you're working on a real high-end desk, I'd avoid using inserts altogether - they can be a significant source of noise and distortion by adding a whole new layer of inexpensive line amps to the equation, along with another switch in the signal path.

So, the big question is... do you have a patch bay? If you do, you can do everything your insert points would allow you to do, but passively with physical patching (tape send or line out to unit - tape return or line in to desk), thus bypassing a whole lot of circuitry and switches.
The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.
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kayagum
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Post by kayagum » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:54 pm

Try this way:

Aux 1 to reverb
Aux 2 to DBX

Reverb returns to 2 tracks (L-R)
DBX returns to 1 or 2 tracks

Make ABSOLUTELY sure that the Aux 1 and Aux 2 sends are turned all the way off on the return tracks.

This way, you can control the levels and EQ for the effect returns.

Once someone explained this much to me, it made a lot more sense...

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