Best Way to print DAW tracks to 2" tape

[ChrisCo]

I'm extremely unfamiliar with all things analog, as I've only recorded in DAW format. That being said, I was reading about the digital bounce vs analogue summing and thought that it might be a much better option to print my project to 2" tape and mix from a nice console. My interface is a Motu 896 through Sonar 4 PE on a PC system. What is the best way to get the tracks from the hard drive and onto the tape?

Thanks!

Chris

[drumsound]

The best way is in one pass. You might want to bring your data to a studio that has 24 (23 really, you'll want to print time code on 24 if you using automation) channels of digital output to patch to the 2" machine.

Baring that you'll want some type of synchronizing system so the computer can chase the 2" deck with time code printed on track 24.

[xonlocust]

i dunno if your 896 can do this too - but w/my motu 828, first you can stripe the reel w/ SMPTE, then set the 828 to chase the smpte and record 8 channels at a time.

also keep in mind analog summing and running off tape are two separate issues - you certainly could just bring your session into a studio and import to thier DAW and run the outputs through thier console for the analog summing and mix down to tape. you don't NECESSARILY have to be going to 2".

[Dave Nutz]

depending on the tape machine, maintenance, and tape, you could actually be doing yourself a diservice.


not that im anti-tape....but if you are going to do it, do it right. Try it and see if it makes are much a difference as you thought it would...if not, the analog summing could be a big advantage, even with a digital recording.

[ChrisCo]

also keep in mind analog summing and running off tape are two separate issues - you certainly could just bring your session into a studio and import to thier DAW and run the outputs through thier console for the analog summing and mix down to tape. you don't NECESSARILY have to be going to 2".

So you're saying that if I do a mixdown onto tape via analogue summing through a good board, that it would be the same as (or equally beneficial as) mixing down on the board from tape?

depending on the tape machine, maintenance, and tape, you could actually be doing yourself a diservice.


not that im anti-tape....but if you are going to do it, do it right. Try it and see if it makes are much a difference as you thought it would...if not, the analog summing could be a big advantage, even with a digital recording.

..but how do I do it right? I don't know how to do it at all. Aside from the suggestions offered (thanks guys), this is the first time I've even thought about OTB mixdown.

Thanks!

Chris

[xonlocust]

also keep in mind analog summing and running off tape are two separate issues - you certainly could just bring your session into a studio and import to thier DAW and run the outputs through thier console for the analog summing and mix down to tape. you don't NECESSARILY have to be going to 2".

So you're saying that if I do a mixdown onto tape via analogue summing through a good board, that it would be the same as (or equally beneficial as) mixing down on the board from tape?

no, i'm not saying that - i'm saying they are two separate processes that will both do something to your sound. you might like one or both (or neither) of them. maybe i'm getting too anal about it - but when you're talking about analog summing, you are talking about the process of summing your audio through mix busses in whatever console it is, and that will do something different than your ITB mixing is doing. furthermore, doing that on a mackie will sound different than doing that on a neve or whatever. and furthermore yet, recording your audio to 2" will introduce some tape hiss and depending on how you record it (how hot your levels are etc) might give you some different things, and the sound of a proper maintained studer might sound different than an old machine in disrepair that's not set up right...

i'm not really saying anything other than trying to specifically identify and understand/know what path your audio is taking through whatever twists and turns you put it through. it's more like just think about the steps involved... you may like it, you may not... i can't (nor anyone here i think with any authority) say IT WILL SOUND BETTER doing XYZ because none of us know the specific variables you'll be up against in whatever hypothetical studio you're talking about going to, other than to say it will sound different - by virtue of your changed signal path... which is what Dr. Nutz is saying...

all bullshit aside - if you take it to a reputable/proper studio who is up on thier shit, it will probably sound better with doing either/both of those things. [like how i contradict myself? ] if it's jimmy's backyard studio, it might sound worse.

i hope in some manner i've helped and not clouded the issue even more!

[msmith4060]

I just dont see why you would do this.....If you want to get some puch and space in there, break it out into a board and use some outboard...If you want tape, do the previous and mix
to a 2 track machine.....If you want 2", it just makes the most sense to start there, not finish there....Im not saying you couldnt, and shouldnt, Im just saying realistically, its probably not worth the trouble, when you could just mix to 2 track if you want some tape in there,,,,,

[Mark Alan Miller]

I just dont see why you would do this.....If you want to get some puch and space in there, break it out into a board and use some outboard...If you want tape, do the previous and mix
to a 2 track machine.....If you want 2", it just makes the most sense to start there, not finish there....Im not saying you couldnt, and shouldnt, Im just saying realistically, its probably not worth the trouble, when you could just mix to 2 track if you want some tape in there

Individual tracks hitting tape will sound a bit different than 2 channels (a mix) hitting tape... just a thought.

[jmoose]

I'm with all the other cats who are saying leave it on the DAW & break it out to a desk and hit an analog 2-track if it needs & wants tape.

If the project is ALL done then going to 2" isn't going to add anything of real 'quality' to the tones that you've got. Just some noise, a slight loss of top & bottom end & a rounding/fuzzing of transients...ALL of which are going to happen on a good console w/ some good outboard gear anyway.

On the flip, if you're still doing overdubs & just have basics done I love dumping to 2" 24 & doing overdubs there 'cause it's WAY faster then doing them in the DAW & sounds better too.

If you do wanna' muck around with the transfer...it's best to do stripe the reel with SMPTE on track 24...30 frames non-drop with a start time of 1:00:00:00 or later (2, 3) & do a single 24-track pass & get it all in one shot. Barring that, get as many tracks as you can in each pass & all stereo pairs stay together.

[ChrisCo]

Thank you all for your ideas and comments!!

Chris

[penrithmatt]

i wouldn't bother........tracking to tape and then duming in the computer is cool,but the other way round.......bit pointless really........i'd be more inclined to tell you to stem yer mix out onto a console,mix in a "traditional" way to a well mantained and aligned 1/2" or 1/4" deck.you'll get more of a "tape sound" that way,i think,than just dumping yer multitrack to 2"........

[philbo]

It sounds like you're looking for the basic technique. If not, forgive my rambling...

You need either an interface that can output all the tracks to separate outputs at once (simplest), or a way to time-stripe the tape so the DAW can start playback at the correct moment (if you have to bring it to tape a few tracks at a time).

For the simple method:
Connect a cable from the DAW out to the tape in for each track, using a separate analog output from your PC for each. Hit play on the DAW, set the levels and arm all the tracks on the tape inputs. Then restart the DAW and hit record on the tape machine.

It'd be simplest to do this through a 24 channel console, but it could be a direct connection from DAW to tape if you don't mind using the mouse to do all the settings.

The time-stripe method requires you have a way to sync your DAW to the time-code recorded on the tape. When adding tracks to the tape, you set your DAW up to listen to the time code and start playing at the start of the material, while recording the next set of tracks. This varies a lot based on the DAW and the tape machine, and may possilby require a converter box to translate between different time codes. I'll defer the details to somebody who has played with this stuff a bit more...
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