Recording Acoustic Guitars

[Nano_606]

hey guys.. I have been trying to get a good sound out of my guitar for a long time. I have tried SD / Dynamics / LD mics. The best result I have gotten so far is the SD mics about 20 inches back.. Then take that and double track it and pan both signals wide and eq the piss out of it... But for some reason I don't think this is the best thing to do...

The sound I'm getting is wayy to boomy. It is also very aggresive, no matter how soft I strum or pick.. I hear accoustic guitars on other recordings and they sound so "even" and rythmic. My guitars sound like they are beating on your eardrums with a old rusty screwdriver.. lol .. if you can imagine that...

One thing I have noticed is my "cheap ass" guitar.. Does anyone know of any particular brand of accoustic that is good for recording?? Also,, is there better technics or mics , or mixing tricks that the pros are doing on most commercial tracks?

[pantone247]

general rule of thumb is, taking the 12th fret as a starting point, for less bass (and boom) aim the mic more towards the head stock, and more for more bass aim nearer the sound hole

uh, is that right?

[Dave Nutz]

well, the shortest route to an even sounding recording of an acoustic guitar is a smooth, full bodied guitar, and a smooth, plesant sounding microphone. trying to make a carlo robelli sound like a martin or comparable well built acoustic just isnt going to work very well.

[@?,*???&?]

Mic'ing an acoustic in mono is absolutely BORING. Investigate some of those stereo mic'ing methods. Coincident is way different sounding than near-coincident. Space is more ambient. If you've got the real estate in your mix or song, stereo mic'ing can really shine and it's way more tight and exciting sounding than sloppy doubled guitar as well.

[jamoo]

along the lines of what pantone said, that is, generally speaking:

*steer clear of the soundhole*.




(i've also gotten that screwdriver sound.)

[mjau]

Mic'ing an acoustic in mono is absolutely BORING.

No offense, Jeff, but this generalization is horseshit. A single, well-placed mic on an acoustic guitar can be perfect in the right situation.

As for the things you mention, Nano...
Are you copying the original track and hard panning the two tracks? Doesn't that just give you a louder mono track?
This is somewhat simple, but it's amazing how much picks and strings can alter the sound of an acoustic guitar. Have you tried some variety there?
What about the space that you are recording the guitar in? Is it a closed in, boxy space or do you have some room to let the guitar resonate better?

[ChrisCo]

Just recently, I took an SM57 and a Sennheiser 421 and threw them up side-by-side to run a comparison test. I tested these on a friend's project that was for his girlfriend... he was writing a "softer" kind of strummy song. I can't believe the sound that I got from these mics both used at the same time, panning them at about 40-60%... the sound was fuller than what I got with my AT4040, but the clarity was still there. The test ended up being the main rhythm track of the song.

Just two mics side by side, miced (as Pantone said) towards the 12th fret about a foot/foot and a half away. A really nice preamp will also make a big difference in the sound, and by that, I don't only mean the product by FMR, but a good mic pre will help add clarity and focus to your tone.

[tsw]

A few thoughts.

1. I used to lose sleep because I was so disgusted by the ac gtr sounds I was getting. I was trying to sound like my favorite records. One day I got pissed enough and decided I didn't give an F about getting anybody's sound. In a way, I stopped trying, which was synonymous with experimenting more. From that day forward, I've gotten nice sounds.

2. Tubes (whether in mics or mic pre's) have not usually given me great results with acoustic guitars.

3. Compression has often been helpful. Distressors especially, but anything will help, especially with that boominess that's driving you nuts.

4. Don't be afraid to turn down the gain on your pre. I used to think I had to get really hot signals all the time in order to be a proper recordist. I don't think that's true anymore. What I often want from an acoustic guitar sound is just a little bit of perkiness that pokes through once in a while, and I've found that lowering the gain during tracking or sometimes on my mixer can help me get this effect. Like you, the sounds I hate most are the ones that are too big.

5. The ubiquitous SM57 can sometimes be the perfect ac gtr mic. Don't think you need to be using an LDC. I don't buy it.

6. Sometimes new strings sound awful. Sometimes old strings sound great. In fact, I'd say that's true more often than not.

7. Sometimes stereo mic'ing is perfect for the song. Sometimes it ruins the song.

8. Dreadnought guitars are sexy but boomy. Try to get your hands on a smaller bodied instrument.

9. I agree with you that drastic EQing feels like the wrong answer, but don't be afraid to use bass cuts wherever they're available: in the mic, in the Distressor, on your mixer. I don't usually have to screw with EQ too much anymore on my ac gtr tracks, but I still am usually dialing out some junk in the "cardboard" frequencies.

10. Mostly, stop caring and start having fun with it.

11. One more thing: try sitting in different parts of your room when you record. Can make a huge difference.

andy

[JWL]

I'm starting to get good results using a M-S technique with a Shinybox 23 and a Rode NT1. I set them up and stand to one side using a wechter pathmaker 3120 small-body guitar, and then to the other side with my jumbo.

When you bring up the decoded M-S tracks, they are already panned and sound huge.

It's been working well so far....

[drumsound]

I tend to like SCDs in XY stereo compared to doubled acoustic. Get away from the sound hole if you're having low-end trouble. A really fast preamp is very helpful in getting the transients to speak and not smear and get crunchy. IF the part is in a dense rock track a Nashville tuned guitar can work well. If you're not familiar, you take a set of 12-string strings and only use the unwound ones. You tune the guitar to the same pitches, but there's not low strings anymore. , You just get the high pitches that float over the mix. Vary your picks as well. I often refer to picks as the $.25 EQ. Don't be afraid to try a nice fast compressor either.[/i]

[vvv]

I hope it is not to obvious to mention that it helps to decide what kind of acoustic track you want.

Sometimes I look for the big stereo acoustic-guitar-that-ate-the-world, especially when it's just that and a voice. (Two condensors LDC or one SDC, or one LDC and a dynamic, etc.)

Sometimes, like the Church or The The, I want that shimmery stereo chorused (without effects) gossamer thing happening. (Multiple tracks, heavy HPF and lots of room, usually SDC's with an LDC; I like to mix the guitars and mic's up.)

Other times, I want it almost like a shaker, mono, maybe hard-panned, and played like Keef. (Dynamic, like a 57, or a SDC.)

Or the famous Keef electric-with-an-acoustic sound like "Street-Fighting Man". (Run hard through a pre or even an amp, with or without break-up; I think I read he used an old two-track tape recorder as a pre.)

I agree that non-dreadnoughts often record better, especially for anything other than my first example. And don't rule out the cheap acoustics, either, especially for cutting through a mix.

I avoid peizos, except as or to an effect, but I am not afraid to EQ, and often change it within the song (ex, less bottom during the verse, more during the pre-chorus.) High-pass filtering is almost always helpfull.

I seldom compress acoustic guitars, but usually limit them fairly heavly.

One more weird thing; I have gotten some of my best sounds pointing an SDC or dynamic at the floor, hanging 1-3' in front of the XIIth fret, and a foot or two above.

[kayagum]

Adding to the already great advice....

... what strings do you use? If you're using cheap, brassy, light gauge strings, try something else.

I've been playing phosphor bronze medium strings for years, and they seem to have the richest tone. I use DR strings, but D'addario is nice too.

I can't tell you how much of a difference medium gauged strings make over light.

One more thing- if you haven't already, get your guitar properly set up by a good guitar tech. Makes a huge difference for tone AND playability. Note- try a shop that specializes in acoustics to get your tech work done.

[JGriffin]

Or the famous Keef electric-with-an-acoustic sound like "Street-Fighting Man". (Run hard through a pre or even an amp, with or without break-up; I think I read he used an old two-track tape recorder as a pre.)

I had heard it was a cassette recorder.

I avoid peizos, except as or to an effect.

This came up by the pool at TOCon...I tend to regard a piezo on an acoustic as a different instrument entirely. One which is altogether not an acoustic guitar but still perhaps can have a place in a mix. I feel the same about Ovation acoustics; they can sound good when used in contrast to an actual acoustic guitar, but not neccesarily as an acoustic in their own right.

I often use the piezo pickup to run the acoustic into an amp...again, completely not trying to sound like an acoustic guitar.

[theBaldfather]

One thing I've done already and liked, was to put a LDC at the 12th fret, and another mic up higher pointed at the fretting hand. I set up a stereo track and ran them right and left. Then I doubled the part except this time I reversed the stereo image. It adds a nice big open feel, without the odd looseness of mono tracks doubled and panned hard right and left. I was a little worried about phase, but I ended up liking it alot.

[bickle]

All killer suggestions, but I can't believe no one's said anything about performance! When working on my own stuff recently, I was unhappy w/ an electric sound, so I tried a bunch of different recording techniques on my cheapy acoustic. Better, but not great. So I borrowed a friend's Martin and tried again. Way better, but still only ok. When I played him the track, he immediately pointed out the crappy acoustic sound. So I told him the chords, stuck a mic in front of him, and now (2 and a half takes later) the sound - and the whole song - is infinitely better.
There's no substitute for skill. Or for generous, fancy-guitar-owning friends.
Another added bit of brilliance he brought along: He retuned the guitar and used a capo to play the same chords w/ different voicings, also vastly improving the sound. Maybe I'm an idiot (or just a bass player), but I never thought of that.