no-no? Recommending mics if it's not yr session (yr ax only)

[???????]

Okay, so I'm getting into recording/engineering for my own education but my career is as a performer and session player. Since I've been getting more into recording i've begun to pay more attention to what mics sound best on my instrument(s). I do feel that if I'm being represented on a recording I have a right to sound the best I can...

However, I usually try my best to keep mum and just let the engineer do his job, especially if it's a session in which I have little or no creative stake.

That's getting a little bit harder for me to do, however, the more I learn. I do a lot of jazz sessions, and often when working with an engineer that doesn't record a lot of jazz guitar, he will just put a 57 on the amp and call it done. For jazz especially in my opinion this sounds terrible (the debate on that is for another thread).

Is it bad form to politely suggest/request another mic if it's not working for you? Even if everyone else (engineer, artist, and whoever's paying for the session) is fine with it? I mean, is there a chance that they're just not really listening to it?

Should I just say "what do you think of that guitar sound?" to call attention to it? What if you think the artist is too inexperienced to know better and the engineer seems too detached to care?

Any thoughts? From you engineer-types... does it make you roll yr eyes or get offended if someone on the session starts suggesting mics for their own instrument only?

Thanks

[joelpatterson]

It's all about balance and fairness. First, ask the engineer if he thinks the guitar you've brought is a good one. Ask him if he thinks you've tuned it correctly. Ask him if your posture will work for the style of music you're doing. Audition for him a few of the riffs you're planning to play--ask his opinion.

Or, maybe it's best to let everyone do their job. You can't really know what constraints he/she is contending with or what the protocols are.

[???????]

yeah that's my instinct. That's also usually my strategy... well, the latter part. I don't usually tend to ask for the engineer's opinion on my gear or what i'm playing... maybe it's a little cocky but I'm generally not too interested unless it's causing some sort of problem. I'm more interested in what the person who brought me in (producer or artist) thinks.

But if the engineer is putting a 57 on my amp and I don't like the sound and there's a tube 47 or 4038 or 77dx sitting right there in the cabinet that isn't being used for anything that I know will work better for what we're trying to do it can be a little frustrating... usually I just roll my eyes and go on. But my instinct is always making me want to get the best recording possible for my clients/fellow players. Ah well, that's life.

[Randy]

Is it bad form to politely suggest/request another mic if it's not working for you? Even if everyone else (engineer, artist, and whoever's paying for the session) is fine with it? I mean, is there a chance that they're just not really listening to it?

I think it's bad form. Actually, I think it's pretty crappy that you would think to do this. We are talking about taste here. If you are the producer, it is probably appropriate. I doubt people are not really listening to their stuff when in the studio. If you don't respect their judgement, do yourself a favor and don't play with them any more. Make music with people you respect.

This is tangential, but I have had people suggest mics without even hearing what the mix sounds like. While I roll my eyes (to myself) and make a mental note to watch out for this person, I'll set up the additional mic and track it so the band can decide whether it sounds good. If there can only be one mic in the spot, I'll track with the "suggested" mic and see if there are problems. This is for someone concerning their own instrument. Say if a guitarist starts trying to direct mic choice for the drums or bass before even hearing a test take, I'd try and stop that as soon as possible. To me mic choice is a big deal, but not as big as the performance. If someone is going to perform better with an inappropriate but damn cool looking mic, I say go for it.

[Randy]

But if the engineer is putting a 57 on my amp and I don't like the sound and there's a tube 47 or 4038 or 77dx sitting right there in the cabinet that isn't being used for anything that I know will work better for what we're trying to do it can be a little frustrating... usually I just roll my eyes and go on. But my instinct is always making me want to get the best recording possible for my clients/fellow players. Ah well, that's life.

Oops, I thought you were making suggestions on other player's mics. As an engineer, I think it's the player's inalienable right to be able to say something like "my guitar sounds too thin." or "the guitar has too much honk." In your case, since you know the mics, saying something like "I had a Coles up next to it in my last session and it sounded sweet" is totally acceptable.

The way I read your post, it seemed like you walked in and wanted to do the mic choices. Sorry 'bout that.

[???????]

haha no problem. I thought that sounded kinda harsh.

[Russian Recording]

let him setup what he thinks will work. if it doesn't sound right on playback, mention it. Explain that you feel that another mic, placed a certan way may be able to capture your sound in a way that you feel is accurate and more flattering. there is nothing wrong with that.

best,
mike

[digitaldrummer]

or if you have available tracks/channels, maybe suggest 2 mics and A/B them later (so you don't miss that magical take and regret it later...)?

other Mike

[cgarges]

I think it's totally reasonable to ask an engineer (politely) about working on a sound if it's not happening for you. There's a bit of a balance to consider if you're not paying for the session, but it's fine to ask. I've learned things I wouldn't have otherwise from musicians suggesting something in particular.

I once had a trumpet player bust in and immediately start asking me about mics and gear and specific types of reverb units as I was trying to shake his hand and introduce myself. I thought he was kind of a jerk, but I tried what he suggested (or demanded, actually) and learned a bit about what goes into getting "that Burt Bacharach trumpet sound."

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[???????]

learned a bit about what goes into getting "that Burt Bacharach trumpet sound."

...unison flugelhorns, slightly out of tune

i love that sound by the way.

[audiogeek1]

I would be very careful when you ask to change mics on your instrument. One of the issues is it is usually the producers job to make a comment on the sound if it is not working. This is really only the case if you are a hired gun.

Last week I had a session acoustic guitar player come in and right away he told me that I should use a specific audio technica mic on his guitar. He said when another studio in town had put it on his guitar it was the best his guitar had sounded. I told him I would try it if my B and Ks would not work. We got off on the wrong foot and the session was awkward. The way I miced the guitar fit the music which was a piano, guitar, vocal song. He probably now asks for B and K mics from now on.

As an engineer I am open to trying things from time to time brought in by musicians but one issue is when they have had no experience with a mic or a technique it can be a time waister.

Mike

[Seventh Wave Studio]

These are the kind of things you bring up in pre-production. Hire the person you trust. If you trust them, let them do whatever they do. If you do not trust them, go to someone else.

I will try anything. Some of the coolest things I have learned have been from an accident or someone asking to try something.

Being open minded on both sides of the glass is the best thing in the world. In most cases, one side or the other is trying to be the boss without wanting to try anything.

Good luck!

[rydberg]

Back when I was running a university's recording program, Arturo Sandoval was a featured guest for the big band's spring concert. The show took place in a theater seating just under 2000 and we contracted out a live sound company. I was acting as stage manager/lead stage hand for this show. The monitor engineer put up a KM84 for the solo mic for Arturo. He immediately asked her to take it down and put up a Beta57. She actually had the balls to say "Do you know what mic this is I put up? It's a great sounding mic." His response: "Please, I'd like a Beta57 or a 58." She kept putting up a fight until the big band director stepped in and told her to just get him what he wanted.

Moral of the story? Sometimes you (as a player) know what works better for your particular approach than the engineer does. ESPECIALLY if you've clearly got more experience doing sessions. A 57 on a guitar amp for a jazz session sounds like an engineer without a lot of experience. But obviously you gotta be diplomatic about it.


P.

[lyman]

It's all about balance and fairness. First, ask the engineer if he thinks the guitar you've brought is a good one. Ask him if he thinks you've tuned it correctly. Ask him if your posture will work for the style of music you're doing. Audition for him a few of the riffs you're planning to play--ask his opinion.

if a person gets offended by somebody voicing their opinion in a professional manner, chances are they're a bit of a douche.

[BeepBeep]

if a person gets offended by somebody voicing their opinion in a professional manner, chances are they're a bit of a douche.

Bingo.