To gate before or to gate after (drums)

lazerlove5 · Post by **lazerlove5** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:19 am

I recently picked up an Aphex 612 gate and I plan to record some drums that need gated for a project.

What are the advantages to gating the drums on the intial recording as opposed to gating the drums after they've been recorded?

Also, would anyone know where to get a copy of the manual for the Aphex 612?

Thanks!

msmith4060 · Post by **msmith4060** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:03 am

Im half kidding,but then again......No Im serious.....The biggest advantage, I think is that youve committed something to tape, and youve just freed up an hour for mixdown on that song......Additionally, you can now use that same gate somewhere else in mixdown!. Put that bad boy right after your verb box and BAM! 1982!

dynomike · Post by **dynomike** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:45 am

Theres no advantage, in terms of sound..
If i print a gate, I always regret it.

MechaGodzilla · Post by **MechaGodzilla** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:16 pm

Gating is something I (almost) always wait for the mix to do. There's really no sonic benefit of gating to tape that I know of.

I did a "salvage-this-mix" session a while back, where the previous engineer had gated 4 toms and summed them to two tracks on tape. The gate cut off way too fast, and missed several hits as well. After dumping them to PT, I had to go in and split out the toms into 4 new tracks, compare them to the overheads to make sure nothing got missed and replace them with samples of complete toms... It was a total pain in the ass, and took about 2 hours a song.

Point being, if you're gonna do it, make sure you're doing it well. Keep checking it periodically, to make sure that your drummer isn't changing his playing enough to mess up the gate.

But to play devil's advocate, lately I've been gating the snare bottom before summing it with the snare top to tape... Works great. And you don't have to waste a track for something as lame as snare-bottom.

KilledByAlbany · Post by **KilledByAlbany** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:08 pm

I would wait for mixdown, or if you have to do it beforehand, be EXTREMELY liberal with your attenuation settings. If you aren't careful, the time you seem to save by doing it beforehand will be negated when you have to start flying in samples after missing lighter hits when tracking an inconsistent drummer.

I also feel like aside from the immediate dangers of potentially printing something you aren't happy with, using too much gating on a kit can really rob a drum track of some of it's life. Sometimes snares ring out, and toms vibrate sympathetically... it's just how it goes, and it can be obnoxious, but it can also add a little bit of character to the song. At least if you gate them at mixdown and decide that they sound a little dull or robotic, you have the ability to go back and change things.

Though I definitely back the idea of gating the bottom snare mic a little bit to tape. While it seems to negate what I just said, in reality, very few people listen to music with their heads under the drum kit, and hearing a snare rattle that close to the source sounds really unnatural, no matter which way you cut it...

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:15 pm

If you just got it, definitely do it at mixdown. I do it at mixdown anyway just because I hate the idea of potantially losing anything that should have been recorded. If you feel brave, you could print it that way (I know some good engineers who do), but it might be in your best interest to spend some time getting used to how the 612 works before you commit your silence to history.

Congratulations, by the way. That's my favorite gate in the world. I own three of them.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

UXB · Post by **UXB** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:33 pm

Don't forget, sometimes you may want to gate as a performance effect a la Visconte, so it would behoove you to print it. I'm full on Cooper Stout, so I apologize if this is vague-what I mean is, like delay, gating can be used as an expressive effect for the musician, in which case, you should print it.

Oops, gotta bet back to work. I've been caught.

-H

msmith4060 · Post by **msmith4060** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:54 am

Ok, see I tried to give you the spin on what would be the norm....Sure, if you gate to tape, youve commited it.....THATS THE POINT!!! If you make it sound good going in--it will sound good coming out, and youre moving on up to other things....Loss of information is inevitable in ANY processing, and there is beauty in loss....So---yeah, make sure it sounds good, and that youve set proper attack, release, threshold, rock, roll---whatever--and make it sound good..---If you are dealing with the same settings either way, then Id do it going in to be done with it and free the gate up for something else....If nothing else, I think its good advice to try to get to a point as an engineer where you feel good with making commitments to tape(drive)...Youll be better for it.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:40 am

lazerlove5 wrote:I recently picked up an Aphex 612 gate and I plan to record some drums that need gated for a project.

how do you know the drums need gating before you hear them?

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:03 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
lazerlove5 wrote:I recently picked up an Aphex 612 gate and I plan to record some drums that need gated for a project.
how do you know the drums need gating before you hear them?

lazerlove5 · Post by **lazerlove5** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:26 am

how do you know the drums need gating before you hear them?

Put that bad boy right after your verb box and BAM! 1982!

Yes, good point! It's a cover project that requires a very 1982 sound.

This advice has all been great. I will most certainly not gate the drums to tape. I'll do it after in the mix and leave room for error.

rydberg · Post by **rydberg** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:42 pm

OTOH, you could expand rather than gate and at get yr drum rumble/resonance factor down to manageable levels. Doing that could make the gating even easier later on. Of course, you'd stil have to be pretty careful with your settings.

And if the project is gonna be in a DAW, you could just edit till yr blue in the face.

P.

Slider · Post by **Slider** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:43 pm

cgarges wrote:before you commit your silence to history.

...hahaha! That's awesome.

jmoose · Post by **jmoose** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:45 pm

MechaGodzilla wrote: But to play devil's advocate, lately I've been gating the snare bottom before summing it with the snare top to tape... Works great. And you don't have to waste a track for something as lame as snare-bottom.

That's about the only drum thing I'll ever gate to tape...and usually it's keyed off the top head.

I'll also gate 'metal' kick drums to tape but with the gate keyed off a trigger that's also printed to tape.

I've gated some way to gainy guitars to tape just to get it outta the way, but generally that's something best done after the fact.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:40 am

Slider wrote:...hahaha! That's awesome.

Thanks!

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

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To gate before or to gate after (drums)

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