Gibson vs Martin

hammertime · Post by **hammertime** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:43 pm

I believe Jimmy page played a Gibson J-200 on his first album, and after that a Martin D-28, at least that's what a cursory google search revealed. The Martin D-28's have been on some of the best recordings ever in just about every genre (slide -ry cooder; country - j. cash; rock - led zeppelin). I once recorded one at Guitar Center, when a guy let me audition different microphones -- it wasn't as playable as, say a Taylor (which I own, and often which I hadn't bought), but they record really well. Unless you're willing to spend a couple of grand, though, you might be better off looking at other brands. And if you are willing to spend 3 1/2 grand on up, there are some pretty awesome instruments (Santa Cruz, Goodall, etc).

stereopathetic_banjo · Post by **stereopathetic_banjo** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:55 pm

I remember several years ago playing my first hummingbird (I know.. I'm sheltered) and being blown away. At that point in my life i was all about getting the best electric tones and didn't really put much stock into acoustics. anyways...after playing that particular gibson, I was on my way to getting the best acoustic I could afford. Did a ton of research, played a ton of gibsons and martins, etc found out i really hated most taylors, and realized there was a pretty large boutique masrket for acoustics(as with everything else nowadays). Long story short, i never found another hummingbird that i liked as much as that first one- which was $1800- more than i was thinking of spending at the time. I ended up hearing about a store that specialized in boutique guitars, played some santa cruz's, collings, etc and what really struck me was the Larrivee's. i played all i could, and i ended up getting the lower end D-03 with matte finish and basic trim- which i personally dig anyway...I got it for $850, played it for a week or so, decided to pimp it out with a bone nut and saddle and brass bridge pins, and dang.... it was like a blanket being lifted. everything i dug about the guitar became more sprite and lively, it was beyond everything i'd played stock, and all in all was much less than any hummingbird i could've gotten. moral to the long story: try some lower end boutique guitars and see what you think- for a few hundred extra, you can add-on a bone nut and saddle and open it right up. I still wouldn't mind having that one hummingbird, tho...

hammertime · Post by **hammertime** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:31 pm

Another thing to remember is that a microphone might hear the guitar better than your ears, depending on how old you are. You're going to get alot of instant gratification from playing a super bright zingy guitar with low action in a guitar store, but it might sound like my Taylor when you try to record it (like it belongs on a Dixie Chicks record or something).

the brill bedroom · Post by **the brill bedroom** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:46 am

Another thing I forgot to mention:Guilds often get overlooked but there are some fantastic Guilds out there, ones from the 70s & 80s, that are handcrafted American made gutars (either Hoboken or Westerly, RI) that you can get for $600- $900. I never have understood why Guild doesn't carry the same reputation in acoustic guitars as Martin & Gibson.

And also: don't ever play a Collings guitar or you will deplete any savings you may have, run up a huge credit card bill and eat Ramen for years to pay for it.

Harmony Head · Post by **Harmony Head** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:22 am

and to further confuse things...

remember that a new acoustic will sound really different in a few years time as it ages and becomes more like a guitar than a tree.

I bought an el cheapo Yamaha acoustic 18 years ago as my knock around, songwriting acoustic. I listen to some recordings of it from back then and it's really thin and bright. Fast forward a few years, with the guitar never having been in a case, and it's a very different beast. The bright is a lot more palatable and the body seems more musical. At the studio, it gets picked up and used more than just about any acoustic that comes in (except for my studio partner's J45), including Matons, Takamines. I did a compare once with a really old Martin and it sounded comparable (not the same, but nice in a similar way.)

So yeah.. i suggest play a lot of different ones until you find the one that feels good to you. Then enjoy it as it gets better and better..

HH

these_go211 · Post by **these_go211** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:37 am

"...as it ages and becomes more like a guitar than a tree."
great quote harmonyhead!

i second whoever suggested giving other brands, like seagull, a try. i truly love seagull guitars and they are very reasonably priced.

Jpp · Post by **Jpp** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:57 am

It's always interesting to get people's impressions bouncing around. Ain't that what the Internets are for?

My general impression of Gibsons is that they have a sweet kind of sound, brilliant but full in midrange, sparkly and rich, even thick sounding. The jumbos can certainly rumble, which is great for that chugging rhythm style. I like the smaller jumbo size a lot... was that the J-160?

Martins are a classic "oh, that's an acoustic guitar" experience for me - as great as they can sound (and I've heard some amazing rosewood Martins) they never really surprise me. It's a very pleasing sound, very useful, well-balanced and woody but sort of conservative.

As to finding the Guitar For You at this point in your guitaring (very early), my suggestion would be a not-too-expensive intermediate-level guitar. You didn't mention a budget, but it sounds like you have enough musical experience to appreciate tone and playability, so get something you enjoy hearing and playing to learn on. Check out some solid-top/laminate sides instruments and see what you think.

If some time goes by and you find that you can actually play barre chords and have calluses and you're ready to shell out, then by all means get a great solid-wood instrument.

And so on,

Jpp

alex matson · Post by **alex matson** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:17 pm

Thanks to all of you. It's nice to have people with some knowledge answer these questions without condescension. (For instance, I posted a question on Cubase.net about upgrading my Mac given the current state of Intel flux and got just one snotty reply.)
I played a few Martins the other day, and was surprised by how much I like the cheap ones which have the HPL or Formica bodies. There's one with a small ding that I could get for under $500. Of course, with synthetic materials there's probably not going to be any improvement in the guitar's tone as it ages. It seems that I'd need to spend twice as much to get an all wood Martin. And I will be checking out those Guilds. I have a stupid bias against all the smaller guitar makers I should probably get over.

I'm going to take my time with this. I got a 5hr DVD acoustic study course with Laurence Juber in the mail today. Two books about Chet Atkins' style yesterday (looks a little too advanced for me...maybe in a couple of months if I study hard). I've got some Roger McGuinn stuff on the way as well as some blues stuff. Never thought I'd wish I'd been born a sharecropper's son....but what's a white suburban boy to do. With piano, I can usually just pick it up off the record. Middle C is middle C.But time after time, I've been struggling to play something, taken it to a real guitarist and had them suss it out quickly into something much easier to play. I have a good ear...I can't wait to get it into my hands.

kayagum · Post by **kayagum** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:26 pm

alex matson wrote:Of course, with synthetic materials there's probably not going to be any improvement in the guitar's tone as it ages.

On the flip side, synthetics won't warp, crack, swell and freak out over temperature changes as badly as real wood. Probably more road-worthy and not as much heartache should it get destroyed.

I personally don't mind laminated sides/back.

rolandk · Post by **rolandk** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:57 pm

Guitar Center is pure evil in my book, but the one super cool thing they have (at least the ones I've been to) is an acoustic guitar room with tons of nice guitars that you can try out.

??????? · Post by **???????** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:02 pm

another vote for checking out seagull guitars. I got one back in '92 when I was 12 as my first 'real' acoustic. Lots of stuff has come and gone and it's still here. It records great. I think I gave 200 bux for it brand new back in '92.

love_tempo · Post by **love_tempo** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:32 am

Having been away from the guitar for a few years I've recently been looking at getting an acoustic.

From trying many new cheaper martin's, taylors, a gibson J45 and some blueridges and some others I came to the following general conclusions:

The taylors sound far too genteel for my liking, a bright delicate modern sound with lots of detail and shimmer. Yucky to me, sounded like middle-age in guitar form. Same goes for the Simon & Patricks/Godin stable.

The OOO series Martin's are very very nice fingerpicking guitars but not suited to rhythm strumming or much else, especially if you like some oomph to the sound. The equivalent Lakewood was similar but better.

The DX series don't sound bad at all considering, but I worry about the fact that they might not get better with age.

The D15 is a good all round guitar with a dark warm earthy tone. Distorts/compresses nicely when played hard.

The gibson J45 had the most attitude and distinctive sound. It can have a very loud barky sound, almost drum-like. Good dynamic range, seems versatile. Reminded me of the classic Elvis, Rolling Stones, Beatles rhythm guitar sound.

The best discovery I made, though, is that the Blueridge BG series (BG-140), seemed to be better in most respects than the new Gibsons, at half the price. So I went with one of those in the end, but I would still consider getting a Martin D-15 and OOO style some time far in the future.

comfortstarr · Post by **comfortstarr** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:22 am

My experience buying an acoustic "just to play": I went out with the understanding that there were great acoustics to be had in the $300 range (Seaguls, Simon & Patrick, et al). I went to Willie's in St. Paul, MN. They had a lot of those kinds, I played them, they sounded nice. They let me take several into a practice room. Then, the diabolical sales guy popped in and handed me the Martin D-15 (which they had tagged "The Martin for the Masses"). He said, "it's a little more than you were looking to spend, but you should hear it for comparison factors." Curse you devil man. It sounded remarkably better than the others, warmer when you wanted it to be, just more (and I'm sorry for this almost wine-like talk) mature. I raised my budget and bought it.

I picked up a blueridge classical from a neighbor a few months ago, it's a good guitar too. I'd really take a look at those if I was buying again.

The Real MC · Post by **The Real MC** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:29 am

FWIW, Tom Scholz recorded "More Than a Feeling" with a piece of crap acoustic guitar (I forget the brand).

getreel · Post by **getreel** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:12 am

The "MoreThan A Feeling" guitar was a Yamaha, I think. I don't have much to add to the debate but I do really like my 2 newer Gibson electrics. They are very nice quality and play fantastic. The less expensive one(a 2002 faded V) plays and sounds as good the pricier 2005 SG Standard. The SG was a perfect 10 right out of the box. The best guitars I've ever owned in my 21 years of playing. I've owned Parkers, Fenders, PRS, Charvel, and on and on.....the Gibsons are the best I've seen and are less than a comparable Fender most of the time. Gibsons also have the Lifetime warranty. I realize that I'm talking a totally different discussion here with electrics, but I'm just pointing out the quality and great experience I've had with recent Gibson guitars. I also own a 1977 S-1. I emailed Gibson about it's age and they answered by the next day. They also emailed schematics for the same guitar when I needed them. Love Gibson!

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Gibson vs Martin

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