bad master philosophy

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bniesz
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bad master philosophy

Post by bniesz » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:16 pm

I just found out the last record I did was not mastered from the 88.2k/24-bit files I sent out on DVDs, but rather the CD-R listener that was "faster" SRCed and "16-bit premaster" L2'ed that had "not for production" written all over it.

Apparently there was a "problem" with the DVDs; but didn't inform me.
I think the facility was just uncapable of accepting those files.

Thank you indie label that will go unnamed.
And thank you clueless mastering facility.

</rant>

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:30 am

sorry to hear it man, that sucks all around. any remotely decent mastering joint can take hi res dvds, and anyone with the least bit of integrity would contact you if there was in fact a problem with the dvd. fuck, i'd drive to your house myself to get the dvd if the only other option was to master off an already L2'd ref disc.

unfortunately the problem isn't just incompetent mastering folks, i think there's also a lot of ignorance on the part of labels and bands as far as what sort of files need to go to mastering. which is understandable, they don't deal with this stuff everyday like we do, so they don't necessarily get how important this stuff is. still frustrating though.

i tracked and mixed a tune for a friends band a couple months ago. it was for some compilation cd. i was really happy with how it came out. when i finished the mix i sent an mp3 to the band so they could check it out. they all said they loved it and i didn't hear anything else from them. the guitar player was over my house the other day. i asked her "do you want me to burn you a data cd of the mix for that comp?"

"oh he said just send the mp3 so i did"

*weeps....*

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carlsaff
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Post by carlsaff » Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:34 am

The idea of an ME using L2-ed audio when he *knows* that there's a high-resolution, non-limited alternative file set available is pretty hard for me to imagine.

Few things are worse than working with audio that has been peak limited before I've even had a chance to really hear it (and it's happening more and more often).
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JohnDavisNYC
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Post by JohnDavisNYC » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:01 am

I would say that this would be an appropriate time to drop names... I'd like to know who NOT to send anything to for mastering, as well as which labels to pay very close attention to what I send them.

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bniesz
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Post by bniesz » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:42 am

Perhaps... but it's my first record for this label, and I don't want to burn any bridges.

And I doubt anyone would stumble upon the tiny mastering facility they used. I think they're actually a graphic design places that does mastering on the side.

In any event, I've learned my lesson. Insist on quality and notable mastering engineers. I had first suggested the Lodge or John Golden or a couple others. But they were a bit too much and/or too long a turn around. In that case.... I should've insisted on a local mastering guru (my mentor as it were) who I trust, and would've been quick and inexpensive.

Leason learned.

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Post by cgarges » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:28 pm

toaster3000 wrote:I would say that this would be an appropriate time to drop names... I'd like to know who NOT to send anything to for mastering, as well as which labels to pay very close attention to what I send them.
Then PM him and ask privately.

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Roman Sokal
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Re: bad master philosophy

Post by Roman Sokal » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:40 pm

sucks to hear that that happened. its happened to me before, and its certainly frustrating when everything is labelled and there are easy to follow instructions for them yet they fuck it up. makes all that meticulous effort go to waste which is sad. hell, i've even had it happen with the printing of artwork for discs/albums i have designed- havening spent so much time tweaking colours etc in photoshop and leaving a readme file to use to attached/embedded color profile and yet they have it revert to some generic cmyk profile that marrs the whole fucking brilliance/saturation of the display. however all in all, did the final product of yours at least still sound quite/very acceptable? if it sounds good to the unbeknownst buyer/listener of the album, then that is what counts...i guess, in a sad sort of compromise! but hey, its all about the music/tunes!!! errr...

bniesz wrote:I just found out the last record I did was not mastered from the 88.2k/24-bit files I sent out on DVDs, but rather the CD-R listener that was "faster" SRCed and "16-bit premaster" L2'ed that had "not for production" written all over it.

Apparently there was a "problem" with the DVDs; but didn't inform me.
I think the facility was just uncapable of accepting those files.

Thank you indie label that will go unnamed.
And thank you clueless mastering facility.

</rant>

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Post by jamoo » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:18 pm

if you're wrong about their handling capability, maybe next time you can just break up the project on CD-Rs (burned as data of course).

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carlsaff
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Post by carlsaff » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:41 am

What I don't get is how bniesz didn't get to approve the master. What's the story there? I would ditch the label if they're not going to let bands approve their masters.
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Post by chris harris » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:01 am

carlsaff wrote:What I don't get is how bniesz didn't get to approve the master. What's the story there? I would ditch the label if they're not going to let bands approve their masters.
I'm assuming that bniesz isn't in the band.

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carlsaff
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Post by carlsaff » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:04 am

subatomic pieces wrote:
carlsaff wrote:What I don't get is how bniesz didn't get to approve the master. What's the story there? I would ditch the label if they're not going to let bands approve their masters.
I'm assuming that bniesz isn't in the band.
Ah... just re-read. My mistake.
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JohnDavisNYC
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Post by JohnDavisNYC » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:11 am

well, whatever... I could ask in a PM, but it's more a question of 'shouldn't this recording community know what label and mastering place are so shitty?'

If a label or mastering engineer did that to me, I'd be sure to say who did it... I mean, what kind of shit mastering house doesn't just call and ask for another copy of the data if something is messed up?

maybe I should go get some coffee before I continue posting on this thread... no caffine morning grumpiness is in full effect.

cheers,
john
i like to make music with music and stuff and things.

http://www.thebunkerstudio.com/

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:29 pm

toaster3000 wrote: what kind of shit mastering house doesn't just call and ask for another copy of the data if something is messed up?
yeah i agree, that's totally unprofessional.

also agree that more coffee is pretty much always a good idea.

bniesz
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Post by bniesz » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:16 pm

subatomic pieces wrote:
carlsaff wrote:What I don't get is how bniesz didn't get to approve the master. What's the story there? I would ditch the label if they're not going to let bands approve their masters.
I'm assuming that bniesz isn't in the band.
That's correct. The band approved the masterer. Plus, the band was told that it was mastered for the CD-R not the hi-res DVDs, but it was treated like it was no big deal. Not being engineers, they didn't understand what the real problem was.

Actually, it wouldn't have been that big of a deal if I had supplied them with a CD-R that had great SRC and had been dithered w/o limiting. Which is the ONLY disc I'll give out from henceforth.

The bottomline here is, regardless of the label or the mastering facility, bands and engineers need to follow the productions that leave their hands to make sure they are treated properly by the fellows down the road. We weren't sure where the disc was going to get mastered (I had made some suggestions that were passed on by the label) - but I should've instisted on talking to the mastering engineer to find out EXACTLY what sort of media he was prepared to handle.
MoreSpaceEcho wrote:What kind of shit mastering house doesn't just call and ask for another copy of the data if something is messed up?
the kind where the label guy has driven up for 5 hours to attend the session and they don't want to rescedule...... that's the guess, i dunno for certain. but i agree, it's unprofessional.

It turns out that the mastering place also MISSPELLED/MISLABELED the CD-TEXT and CDDB info for the disc. Two titles were incorrectly labelled. CDDB is easy to fix, but car stereos everywhere will display the slightly wrong song titles forever.

Those types of things are unforgivable.

Now, I know a few of you are eager to see the mastering house and label named, but I am going to disappoint you partially. The label has been really supportive of the band in many other ways and have totally taken tons of risks for them... plus, they've mailed me quite a few checks in the last year... so i'm going not to give them a bad name. They're a good label with an unfortunate loyalty to a bad mastering facility. The mastering facility has a bad review coming. They can't be trusted with ensuring quality, and the truth should be said. The said album was mastered at Audiographic Masterworks in Memphis, and sadly, I advise you to steer clear.

I will say, on a side note, the most important thing how it sounds. And while there are moments where as an engineer i feel the compression and limiting (probably the haphazard L2) are a flaw, overall i'm pleased with the final result. It's a good sounding record, and the casual listener will probably not notice the flaws I do. My only regret is that it could've sounded even better had I ensured quality and care once the mix masters left my hands.

All in all, no matter what the mastering facility, I should've talked to the mastering engineer prior to the session to ensure I'd sent files he could use. I made the assumtion that 88.2k 24bit AIFs would suffice because that is the ideal format in the small mastering facility with which I had prior experience. Don't make compatability assumtions, or you may end up with shortcuts taken.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:32 am

bniesz wrote: the kind where the label guy has driven up for 5 hours to attend the session and they don't want to rescedule...... that's the guess, i dunno for certain. but i agree, it's unprofessional.
well...that is understandable, sorta, but still.
It turns out that the mastering place also MISSPELLED/MISLABELED the CD-TEXT and CDDB info for the disc. Two titles were incorrectly labelled. CDDB is easy to fix, but car stereos everywhere will display the slightly wrong song titles forever.

Those types of things are unforgivable.
totally. that's not acceptable at all.
I will say, on a side note, the most important thing how it sounds. And while there are moments where as an engineer i feel the compression and limiting (probably the haphazard L2) are a flaw, overall i'm pleased with the final result. It's a good sounding record, and the casual listener will probably not notice the flaws I do.
well that's good. the compression/limiting thing is unfortunately something that, as the guy who mixed it, is almost always gonna piss you off. i had stuff i mixed mastered by FancyPants Mastering in NYC, and he piled tons of compression on it. as you say, the casual listener will think it sounds fine, but i was bummed out at how much it changed the mix. all the bounce was totally gone, it just kinda sat there. it sucks. but until we can convince people to not make their records stupid loud we're kinda fucked.
Don't make compatability assumtions, or you may end up with shortcuts taken.
wise words. fwiw, voxengos r8brain pro is a really good SRC for not much money.

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