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RodC
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Post by RodC » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:06 am

Now you want to really get rid of the whole thing, check out your guitar amps effects loop. Many of them are line level and do not suffer from the same problems you have with the instrument level input AND many have a level adjustment. With this adjustment and the level adjust out of your DAW you can get a very acurate sound and run longer cables.

Have you guitar players ever noticed that you can put line level effects in that loop, try that with the instrument level.

So...

Record your guitar throught your favorite chain several options:

Guitar - DI - DAW (Active or passive DI)

Guitar - Effects - DI - DAW (Active or passive DI)

Guitar - Instrument Effects - Amp instrument in - Effects loop out - Loop Effects - DI - DAW (Active or passive DI)

THEN when you go to reamp
DAW out - Guitar effects loop return Adjust the output of your DAW and the level of the effect return to taste. (I sometimes place a passive DI here for isolation and conversion from balanced to unbalanced)

Makes it very easy to capture that guitarist that walks in with a bunch of effects. Many have effects between the guitar and the amp and some in the loop. This gives you a way to capture them all and then return them to the amp where they would end up anyway. Now all you have to do is get the level right.

I like to use an active DI up front, makes the need for a preamp unnecessary and allows more adjusment of input levels.
'Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones'

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RodC
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Post by RodC » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:27 am

I did this before I even heard about Reamp. In fact thats how I found out about reamp. One day I was working on an amp for my son, it was making a noise when he played a certain note. Instead of him plucking it over and over I recorded it then played it back with a loop through his amp. I knew better than to plug it into the instrument but he said, "hey, the effects loop should be line level", so we did it. After I fixed the amp it dawned on me, we had all kinds of stuff recorded direct becase we have a single room studio, I thought what if I played it back with one track and recoreded it with the other Duh... I did it and it sounded OK well about 4 months later I discovered tapeOp and read about Reamp and found out I was the Christopher Columbus (reaching the new world many many years after others) However Im sure history wont be as kind to me LOL.

I do want to buy a Reamp someday, but for now my passive DI sounds pretty good.
'Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones'

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RodC
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Post by RodC » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:34 am

Dang it I left a case out...

I have recorded several giutarsists like this:

Guitarist only uses Guitar and amp, no effects.

Guitar - Instrument in - Effects Loop out - DI - DAW

Turn the master vol down, this captures the Preamp on most guitars. When you goto reamp just go back in the effects loop in like the previous posts. And dont forget to turn the master vol back up. :lol:
'Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones'

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Jeff White
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Post by Jeff White » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:17 am

Many of them are line level and do not suffer from the same problems you have with the instrument level input AND many have a level adjustment. With this adjustment and the level adjust out of your DAW you can get a very acurate sound and run longer cables.
I just looked at Mesa DC3's manual. It does not say if the input is guitar or line level. The FX loop input is a post preamp poweramp input. The only things that can be used in either channel when this is used as an input is the presence, channel volume, graphic EQ, and master volume.

So I can use my reamp box with the amp, or use the amp this way. I'm wondering if running direct recorded bass through the DC3 tube poweramp will give me a favorable sound for reamping. I'll have to check this out.

Jeff

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RodC
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Post by RodC » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:26 am

jdub wrote:
Many of them are line level and do not suffer from the same problems you have with the instrument level input AND many have a level adjustment. With this adjustment and the level adjust out of your DAW you can get a very acurate sound and run longer cables.
I just looked at Mesa DC3's manual. It does not say if the input is guitar or line level. The FX loop input is a post preamp poweramp input. The only things that can be used in either channel when this is used as an input is the presence, channel volume, graphic EQ, and master volume.

So I can use my reamp box with the amp, or use the amp this way. I'm wondering if running direct recorded bass through the DC3 tube poweramp will give me a favorable sound for reamping. I'll have to check this out.

Jeff
Is this your amp:
http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Dual%20Cal%20DC-3.pdf

I would say yes, Take a look at page 6, the effects loop return can double as a Power Amp Input jack.

Most effects loops are Line Level if anyone sees one that isnt I would be real suprised. Please post it here so we can study it.
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RodC
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Post by RodC » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:44 am

jdub wrote:
Many of them are line level and do not suffer from the same problems you have with the instrument level input AND many have a level adjustment. With this adjustment and the level adjust out of your DAW you can get a very acurate sound and run longer cables.
I just looked at Mesa DC3's manual. It does not say if the input is guitar or line level. The FX loop input is a post preamp poweramp input. The only things that can be used in either channel when this is used as an input is the presence, channel volume, graphic EQ, and master volume.

So I can use my reamp box with the amp, or use the amp this way. I'm wondering if running direct recorded bass through the DC3 tube poweramp will give me a favorable sound for reamping. I'll have to check this out.

Jeff
In your case you would prob want to capture the ouput of the preamp (Effects Loop out) Then play it back into the power amp (Effects Loop Return)

Just think about it this way, if you capture a pure clean signal from the guitar you are going to have to go back through all your effects and you have to face the instrument level/impedance issues. If you capture something after the preamp then you can just go right back into the power amp.

You can still capture the pure clean if you want the insurance, but most guitar players know what settings they want and if you go messin with them too much you will prob loose them even if it sounds better.
'Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones'

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Post by plus6 » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:10 pm

subatomic pieces wrote:needlz's comments were certainly out of line...

but, c'mon... the whole "say it to my face" thing on messageboards is so seriously lame. your post would've been plenty effective without the last line.

if you're somewhat of a public figure (I've heard your name hundreds of times and used your products thousands of times) you better just get used to the fact that not everybody will ALWAYS have nice things to say about you. you're miles ahead if you just ignore the haters rather than inviting them down to your work for a fight.
No fight "subatomic pieces" an apology is what I expect from neediz?s. Then we will go to lunch, my treat.

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Re: Reamp

Post by needlz » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:32 pm

plus6 wrote: FYI- The first Reamp I built and sold was in 1993. I applied for a patent at the same time. The patent was granted in 1999 after five years of searching and considerations by the U.S. patent office. The process cost me over $10.000. The Jensen diagram you posted is dated 1995, which is two after I applied for the patent. Both Radial and Millennia Media think enough about the patent to pay me a small royalty for its use.
Inventors:
Cuniberti; John P. (Oakland, CA)
Appl. No.:
08/339,838
Filed:
November 15, 1994

Hmmm... Patent in 1993? Looks closer to 1995 to me. However, there are line level to low level transformer interfaces from Jensen that date from 1991 and even the late 1980s, like AS007 direct box from 1992. You must be stoked that you got this patented and are profitting from it. I'd be stoked.
plus6 wrote: So neediz, do you still think I?m an a** or do you owe me an apology? I work at The Plant in Sausalito so you can come over and say it to my face.
An apology? No... but I definitely should not have called you an a**. I don't know you and I should not have made my remarks personal. I really gotta stop posting late night after getting a belly full of beer. I guess I am blacklisted from any mastering work at The Plant. :(

This is not the first time you have been confrontational on the patent topic. I personally love this little exchange with Jonathan Little of Littlelabs back in 2002?

http://gearslutz.com/board/printthread.php3?t=1150

He is still selling his Redeye and seems to be doing quite well... How did the lawsuit turn out?

Even with this said you do make a mighty fine product. Quality construction. I actually bought a reamp before I before I figured out how to build them myself. My only beef is with this damn patent and your defense of it. Just doesn't make sense to me... but then again I am just a caveman.

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Brett Siler
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Post by Brett Siler » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:32 pm

RODC, thanks for the tips on the reamp techniques. I am gonna tryo some of those out.

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Re: Reamp

Post by plus6 » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:34 am

needlz wrote:
plus6 wrote: FYI- The first Reamp I built and sold was in 1993. I applied for a patent at the same time. The patent was granted in 1999 after five years of searching and considerations by the U.S. patent office. The process cost me over $10.000. The Jensen diagram you posted is dated 1995, which is two after I applied for the patent. Both Radial and Millennia Media think enough about the patent to pay me a small royalty for its use.
Inventors:
Cuniberti; John P. (Oakland, CA)
Appl. No.:
08/339,838
Filed:
November 15, 1994

Hmmm... Patent in 1993? Looks closer to 1995 to me. However, there are line level to low level transformer interfaces from Jensen that date from 1991 and even the late 1980s, like AS007 direct box from 1992. You must be stoked that you got this patented and are profitting from it. I'd be stoked.
plus6 wrote: So neediz, do you still think I?m an a** or do you owe me an apology? I work at The Plant in Sausalito so you can come over and say it to my face.
An apology? No... but I definitely should not have called you an a**. I don't know you and I should not have made my remarks personal. I really gotta stop posting late night after getting a belly full of beer. I guess I am blacklisted from any mastering work at The Plant. :(

This is not the first time you have been confrontational on the patent topic. I personally love this little exchange with Jonathan Little of Littlelabs back in 2002?

http://gearslutz.com/board/printthread.php3?t=1150

He is still selling his Redeye and seems to be doing quite well... How did the lawsuit turn out?

Even with this said you do make a mighty fine product. Quality construction. I actually bought a reamp before I before I figured out how to build them myself. My only beef is with this damn patent and your defense of it. Just doesn't make sense to me... but then again I am just a caveman.
Although your facts are incorrect I will take RodC?s advice and ignore the hate.

Have a nice day
:wink:
Last edited by plus6 on Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RodC
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Post by RodC » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:00 am

InvalidInk wrote:RODC, thanks for the tips on the reamp techniques. I am gonna tryo some of those out.
Cool, post back your results. As you see I mostly reamp so I can record in one room. I believe these techniques work better than always trying to capture the Instrument level signal. That portion of the chain is very sensitive to impedance differences and I dont think any box will mimic the interaction of a guitar pickup and the amp input perfectly. Thats why I like to pickup the output of the preamp, where God intended us to record a direct signal!

I hope we can put this thread back on track I learn something new about this type of recording with every band I work with.
'Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones'

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Brett Siler
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Post by Brett Siler » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:27 pm

Well I recorded a metal band today, I put a DI on the preamp out on his 5150. I will most definiatly be reamping to get the tracks all nice and thick. I will let you know how it goes.

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RodC
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Post by RodC » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:38 pm

InvalidInk wrote:Well I recorded a metal band today, I put a DI on the preamp out on his 5150. I will most definiatly be reamping to get the tracks all nice and thick. I will let you know how it goes.
So how did your 5150 sound turn out?
'Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones'

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Brett Siler
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Post by Brett Siler » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:53 pm

I about 50 hours at work this week, when I get off I am dead tired so it will probably mess with it after this weekend and let you know.

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Post by scott macdonald » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:49 am

So are DIs and reamping the secret to getting a good recording of a band playing togther in one room?

I ask because this is what I hope to do with my own band, and this thread has given me some things to think about. The last time we recorded a few songs, we played together in our practice space -- I isolated the guitar and ran the bass DI (we're a 3-piece). Still got a lot of bleed from the guitar, since the practice space is only a 10x20 room.

I'd love to be able to concentrate on getting a nice recording of the drums (since, after all, I'm the drummer) but still have the tight vibe of us all playing together. Then later I could reamp the bass and guitar tracks and get my nice sounds there.

One question I have is how the bass and guitar will sound in our headphones as we play live. I can't imagine getting the feeling we're hoping for if our instruments don't sound good in the headphones. Like, I can't imagine really rocking when we're hearing a sterile DI guitar track instead of a loud Fender amp, you know?

Any suggestions on how to go about this kind of home recording approach? I'm pretty new to recording and still in the early stages of gear acquisition.

thanks!
-scott

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