Clever ways to buy more gear than you can afford.

[ubertar]

Research the fuck out of everything, so you know what a good used pre or mic is and what it's worth. Then scan craigslist and ebay regularly and get shit when it's miscategorized, mislabled or just overlooked for whatever reason and is going for less than it's worth. Also, learn to fix stuff, so you can get stuff that's not in perfect shape and get it working. And make stuff when you can-- tape op omnis, for example.

[I'm Painting Again]

Everyone's comment about buying thing with an 80-100%

it's not unrealistic..neve modules go up ~10% in used value each year..50's tube stuff gets more scarce and more scarce, etc.

with most of the junk out there your right..I can't stress how important (i think)it is to choose your gear wisely..

I have no problem with someone taking out a loan but I would strongly suggest buying stuff that doesn't depreciate so much..'specially with that interest factor..

because you know your not going to be making it back throgh the gear itself..you will be paying for it from your dayjob..

[MoreSpaceEcho]

audiohog, what sort of stuff are you looking to buy? not specific brands or anything, just generally...like 'i need mics, 4 pres, a compressor, etc'

i just read your post and recognized myself 10 years ago. and i thought man, i wish there was someone back then who knew what was up and told me not to buy a bunch of crap at guitar center and buy one good mic and a good pre and compressor instead.

its not so much about buying stuff that will hold its resale value, tbh i never think about that when i'm buying something, but it is true that good stuff will inherently hold its value and you won't take much of a loss if you do decide to sell it. anyway, its more about the fact that good stuff sounds good. and it'll continue to sound good. and actually as you record more and your skills and ears improve, the good stuff will sound BETTER cause you'll come to appreciate it more. as opposed to say the $200 condenser du jour, which might sound initially attractive, but two months later you're like ouch that high end is killing me...

[charles bronson]

i can sort of see where audio hawg is coming from having been in a
similar situation myself a couple of years ago. you see i got this
credit card on a whim. i literally filled out the forms for the thing just
to see if i would get accepted because i was unsure of my credit standing
at that time and this seemed to be the best way of gauging it.

and what do ya know! accepted!

then the local guitar center started selling octava 319s and mc12s two for a hundred dollars!

although i'm glad that i am credit card debt free i can at least half justify
getting that card. the main reason being that i did a shit ton of reasearch
like audio hawg did and realizeed that this deal was one you just don't
pass up. hell i even naively performed one of those scott dorsey mods
on two of the four mc-12s fucking them both up only to return the sonsa
bitched back to guitar center for FULL CREDIT!

keeping an open mind i also learned that buying mediocre used gear,
BUT mediocre used gear with good fix up potential was really a blessed
alternative.

TONS cheaper! and more fun and rewarding!

hell i really am way more than comfortable with just performing the extensive black lion audio mods on ebay, used bellari mp105s. and using those things exclusively.


those modded 105s are going to sound light years better than any art series pre-amp one could buy. hell the tape-op paia mic pre-amp mod offers incredible fidelity. very much pro syle for like a couple of hundred bucks per channel.

i suppose if your'e shrewed enough, fully knowing the numerous options out there then you can't go wrong.

my two cents

mark

[MoreSpaceEcho]

hell i even naively performed one of those scott dorsey mods
on two of the four mc-12s fucking them both up only to return the sonsa
bitched back to guitar center for FULL CREDIT!

hahaha. nicely done.

[AudioHog]

audiohog, what sort of stuff are you looking to buy? not specific brands or anything, just generally...like 'i need mics, 4 pres, a compressor, etc'

Well, I know you didn't ask for name brands but maybe I should list the main items. Your input is important to me and I appreciate everyone's responses. Here we go.
SM57 (2) Have 2 already
AT3035 (1)
NTA1A (1)
MXLv63M (1)
CAD Drum Pak (1)
ART Pro Channel (1)
ART MPA Gold (2)
MAudio Octane (1)
MAudio ProjectMix (1)
MAudio BX5A (2) Also have KRK8's
Mackie BigKnob (1)
Monster MP Pro3500 (1)

There's also cables, stands, and a few other goodies on this list. We also already have some rack gear that we liked. This is for a PROJECT studio. Four of us have been building for almost a year now. The platform is OSX and we already have the Mac.

[jmpizzoferrato]

to me, the best thing to buy first is instruments. bands that come into your studio don't care about your royer 121 or whatever.. they WILL be psyched to know you have a wurli or a set of beautiful zildjian cymbals. you'll be psyched, too. more people will be stoked about your studio and you'll be able to add so many more flavors than if you had a rack of APIs.

not that buying sepreme outboard is a bad idea. buying a rack of APIs would be invaluable. you'd use them forever. but APIs arent going to make a peavey sound like a fender, right?

i'm moving into a 'real' studio space soon. between my partner and i, we have your average mid-range gear with a few special exceptions. what we do have on our side is excellent room, and awesome equipment. marshall JMP, nice cabs, 1950s premier kit with 50s zildjians, hammond M3 and leslie, martin acoustic, etc.

i'm glad i bought a ton of amps, guitars, drums, synths, etc. i feel like more often than not, great sounds come from the source. if you're playing a strat through a screamin' JMP and throw a 57 up to it, it's going to sound pretty great, right? maybe not have the nuance that a 57 through a v76 will have but the big picture will be there!

that's just my general feelings on stupid stuff. whatever haha

[joninc]

this is good advice - instruments (source) sounds are ultimately more important than preamps etc... people are inspired to play great/interesting instruments more than nice outboard gear.

that said - start with atleaset 1 good mic and then 1 great pre amp and build out from there. rent the extra stuff. try to borrow (and lend). don't drop a lot of cash on gear you can't try first. let it grow with your skill level and don't obsess over what you don't have.

a few cheap mics that went a long way for me - a rode NT2 (decent for voc, acoustic/electric guit, O/H, outside kik) - atm 25 (great for kick, toms, bass amps) - a pair of AKG 535 (my only O/H for several years, acoustic, vocal, hihat etc...) and obviously 57s for amps/toms/snare/acoust/voc. a few cheap and decent pres - art pro MPA, fmr RNC.

in the past year or 2 i have bought a lot of high end gear used on ebay - be smart - check the feedback - reputable sellers won't risk their business flipping a busted mic. a lot of the gear i buy there i get for nearly half price
and i have yet to have a problem. pay the extra $10 for insured shipping.

i am pretty good paying for things when they're broken down into smaller chunks so when my local chain music store does it's "interest free for 6 months" deals i nearly always something and try to put down a big deposit - usually 50%. auto withdrawals from my bank acct and in 6 months it's mine. when i make some extra cash i put money down to speed up the payment. it's taken 5 or 6 years but i know have a nice little collection of stuff and more importantly - it all gets used a lot and i have a pretty good undestanding as to how it works and what it's good for etc..

credit cards are the devil - avoid as much as possible. it can take years to pay off even a couple thousand bucks.

[Albert]

Time for some tough love AudioHog, so stop reading now if you are sensitive to helpful criticism. Here it is:

Your gear list is mostly prosumer crap, largely bedroom studio stuff. That is *not* the kind of gear you go into debt over. You throw the scraps from your financial table at that kind of gear, the leftovers that you save up week to week.

If you are going into debt buying recording gear, then you have to buy gear *worth going into debt over*. If you are serious about making money from recording and want to attract customers, then you have to buy better gear than what they probably have in their own bedroom studios.

My advice is to not go a penny into debt over that gear list. Buy it piece by piece from weekly savings. If however, you have some customers and a business plan that you know has the potential of paying off your loan in a reasonable time, then get some quality gear that makes the investment worth it. Quality gear will also be more likely to attract a higher grade of clients.

[allbaldo]

This is a tricky discussion. One thing is sure... you must consider what kind of use the equipment you buy will get. Are you going to record small local bands, you're own stuff, big huge bands, or what? How many musicians at once? How many inputs do you need? What is the goal of your business?

I started my place with an older, slightly out of date... now really out of date.. "pro" daw, a good, but not great console, and a bunch of prosumer crap. Oh how I wish I had saved up for 1 really high end piece instead of buying the prosumer stuff. I finally realised this, and saved up for Seventh Circle audio preamp kits I could build myself, which saved money, and brought my quality up considerably, and gave me expandability. IF the business grows enough to warrant it, I'll get more.

I definitely find that although I yearn for all the amazing gear out there, managing to stay out of debt for what I do have, has been the single smartest thing I've done.

These are tools. If you're working in your garage as a hobby, do you need Snap-on? Probably not. Are you trying to make a living? Better build up the good stuff one tool at a time, but don't kill your business with debt before you even start it.

[wookie]

Hey, if you want to take out a loan to get started on your hobby and you're okay with paying many times what the gear is worth to have it now, more power to ya.

[i]Really, people pay interest on Harleys every day[/i], I see no difference man.

If you are really doing this to make money, even just enough to pay for gear, AVOID INTEREST BEARING DEBT! You don't take out a loan to open a lemonade stand. You use your mom's water and lemons and sugar and make your little brother stnad on the corner with a sign.
If you really do want to charge people to record them, I'll let you in on a "secret"........
You have to give them an "experience".
What does this mean?

It means they need to get something from you that they can't get from sitting in their living room with a 57 plugged into a ART into an Mbox on a Dell. Everyone in a band has this or knows someone who will hook them up.
This is not to say that you can't make money using that exact signal chain, however. If you have a plan, something to market, you could do well with the list you mentioned. BUT YOU BETTER HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER. Like a really good sounding, or vibey room. Maybe some good instruments, even better, friends with good instruments to loan you.

Take all this with a grain of salt, 'cause I still have two day jobs. But I have zero debt, and a studio that now buys its own gear.

[AudioHog]

Time for some tough love AudioHog, so stop reading now if you are sensitive to helpful criticism. Here it is:

Your gear list is mostly prosumer crap, largely bedroom studio stuff. That is *not* the kind of gear you go into debt over. You throw the scraps from your financial table at that kind of gear, the leftovers that you save up week to week.

I realize it's prosumer crap. But this is a hobby for now. Albiet an expensive hobby. But so is motorcycle riding, water skiing, classic car building, and photography. People go into debt all the time on their hobbys. At least this hobby has some creative potential and serves as a springboard into a possible future business. But for now, we're a handful of people who just want to record.

If you are going into debt buying recording gear, then you have to buy gear *worth going into debt over*. If you are serious about making money from recording and want to attract customers, then you have to buy better gear than what they probably have in their own bedroom studios.

I agree IF we were building a pro studio. Again, just getting our feet wet here.

[AudioHog]

This is a tricky discussion. One thing is sure... you must consider what kind of use the equipment you buy will get. Are you going to record small local bands, you're own stuff, big huge bands, or what? How many musicians at once? How many inputs do you need? What is the goal of your business?

Mostly recording our own stuff but some local artists have expressed interest in demos.

These are tools. If you're working in your garage as a hobby, do you need Snap-on? Probably not. Are you trying to make a living? Better build up the good stuff one tool at a time, but don't kill your business with debt before you even start it.

If this ever actually became more than a hobby, then I see this as a smart move. This debt will be payed off in three years with minimal interest through my credit union. If at that time, we realize there's a potential for a business then it's time for a re-evaluation of our gear. But the foundation is there. The rooms are done and have been tuned. We'll also know alot more about what the studio can provide and what the demand(s) might be. Helpful stuff when developing a business plan.

[Albert]

Well, I know you didn't ask for name brands but maybe I should list the main items. Your input is important to me and I appreciate everyone's responses. Here we go.
SM57 (2) Have 2 already
AT3035 (1)
NTA1A (1)
MXLv63M (1)
CAD Drum Pak (1)
ART Pro Channel (1)
ART MPA Gold (2)
MAudio Octane (1)
MAudio ProjectMix (1)
MAudio BX5A (2) Also have KRK8's
Mackie BigKnob (1)
Monster MP Pro3500 (1)

Some thoughts on your gear list:

AT-4040 instead of 3035.

Skip the MXL V63 and go for a different MXL like the V6. Or perhaps an ADK Vienna.

Skip the Octane and/or one of the ART's and get one or two much better preamps. Your whole preamp approach could use some fine tuning. I think you need one exception preamp in addition to the others, and you currently don't have that.

Rethink whether you need the Monster power strip thingy or whether a Tripplite unit will do just as well. (hint: it will). The Monster is not a power conditioner, it's basically a surge protector with the usual EMI filters. There are a lot of less expensive "power strips in a rack" that will do just as well, for less money. My opinion.

Since you are potentially doing demos for other bands--possible future clients, I think a few little upgrades here and there will really go a long way and not cost that much more.

[AudioHog]

Albert, it took me a couple of days to take your earlier advice to heart and to head. I appreciate it and have thought through a couple of things differently.
As for your last post, the only real reason the octane came up was for recording drums. Just to have the eight pres via Lightpipe. I heard one in use last time I was in the cities and it sounded decent. Do you have a recomendation for those extra pres? Perhaps a mixer but then I lose my extra eight channels into my interface. Maybe RME?

Thanks