Out-of-phase monitors and vocal recording

[The 1-2-3-4]

In the interview with Richard Barone in the latest issue, he makes a passing mention of AC/DC's singer recording his vocals in the null-zone between two out-of-phase monitors. This idea intrigues me. I assume the main advantage to this is that the singer can listen to the music without headphones, giving the feel of being on stage. Are there any other advantages? Problems to watch out for? Is it possible to have the vocal coming out through the monitors without feeding back in this situation? Is a slight bump to the mic going to turn things into a screeching mess? Is Richard talking about Bon Scott or Brian Johnson? Any tips you can provide will be appreciated!

[tonewoods]

Bump...

I'd like to know too if anyone here has experimented with this technique and how it worked out for them...

Mic used, how difficult is it to find "the spot", what kind of monitors, how much bleed to expect, etc. etc...

I'm thinking that singing sans cans is gonna create a totally different performance, and it might be worth persuing...

Does anyone know some well-known recordings or studios that use this technique??

I seem to remember some Motown stuff might have been done this way, and maybe CSN's first LP with the three vocals on a single U87?

You see pics of the Beatles doing vocal ODs sans cans, but I don't know if the speakers are wired out-of-phase or not...

Just curious, and love to hear your experiences...

[Chrisbrownsound]

I've used this technique a few times with great results.
A few tips:

1. Obviously, room reflections should be kept to a minimum.

2. Use small speakers on stands the same height as the vocalist and microphone. NS10's are ideal.

3. IMPORTANT! - Send a MONO playback mix to the speakers. If you send stereo you will not get full phase cancellation.

3. Some vocalists can't deal with listening to out-of-phase playback. they say it makes them feel sick. Other vocalists don't even notice it...

4. The "sweet spot" is easy to find as it is exactly equidistant between the speakers. Position the speakers and microphone in an equilateral traingle pattern.

5. Pretty much any cardioid microphone will work with this technique.

6. Feedback shouldn't be a problem if the microphone is moved out of position, unless it's turned round and pointed directly at the speakers.
But keep an eye and an ear on this, as phase cancelation will be reduced if any of the componants are moved slightly out of position.

[pantone247]

"they" say Bono records like this a lot

[John E. RokkeR]

i've often tracked with the monitors kinda low but enough to hear while singing, with a compressor on the way in so that the only time you hear the monitors playback in the tracking is whenthere is no singing. as long as you balance it out to where, when soloing the vocal track, you can't hear any of the playback from the monitors during the vocals. and that is accomplished by finding the sweetspots both in monitor volume and compressor settings.

but it is nice to not have to wear the headphones.

[Shawn Simmons]

I've never used two speakers but I have used one monitor wedge. To me, if the singer's performance is going to be better then I don't care about the bleed. And I don't really worry about phase (there isn't any with only one monitor, at least not noticably). I'll use a cardioid mic and put the monitor behind the mic. As long as the singer is actually singing and not whispering, it shouldn't really matter how much bleed there is. You'll never hear it in the mix. I also make sure that whatever the singer is hearing is actually staying in the song. (like if there's a guitar solo but we may re-cut it, I won't put the solo in the monitors). At the end of the day, it's all about performance. I've actually recorded a full band where all we used were monitor wedges. No headphones. It took a while to set everything up but once we did, it rocked. Great performances! The band felt like they were on stage.

It's worth trying if you can. Some people just can't get used to headphones and it's always nice to have another option.

[tonewoods]

I've never used two speakers but I have used one monitor wedge.

Check out page 64 in "The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions"...

"Revolver" sessions...

Zero headphones, one big speaker, 2 U47s, and 3 singers....

[The 1-2-3-4]

I've never used two speakers but I have used one monitor wedge. To me, if the singer's performance is going to be better then I don't care about the bleed. And I don't really worry about phase (there isn't any with only one monitor, at least not noticably). I'll use a cardioid mic and put the monitor behind the mic. As long as the singer is actually singing and not whispering, it shouldn't really matter how much bleed there is. You'll never hear it in the mix.

Richard mentions that the AC/DC vocalist never rose above a whisper while singing, so this would seem to be another advantage of the out-of-phase monitor technique: the ability to hear the music without headphones and sing as quietly as you want.

[Rodgre]

I am with Shawn1272. I will use a powered wedge occasionally to do a lead vocal part if it makes the singer feel more comfortable (and sound better).

I find that sometimes their pitch and performance are better this way.

I'm careful not to put the wedge too loud and not to put unnecessary tracks into it. I'll even EQ it a bit dark, so things like cymbals aren't bleeding too much. I find that the bleed is negligible for a pop/rock mix. I usually automate the track to bring it down when the singer isn't singing as well.

One thing to be VERY careful of is how much you compress the vocal. That's where the bleed becomes a major issue. If I find that the tone that I love on the voice has more compression than sounds good with the bleed, I will run a vocal pass with less compression and use that track for the in-between parts.

Roger

[;ivlunsdystf]

Richard mentions that the AC/DC vocalist never rose above a whisper while singing...

Huh?

[I'm Painting Again]

Richard mentions that the AC/DC vocalist never rose above a whisper while singing...

Huh?

haha you got tricked into thinking it was done with balls..just listen to the records you can tell it was done with little strain on the throat..

[Silverjet89]

I've read that they don't record the guitars very loud either. I wonder how they mic the amps. They sound so huge.

[???????]

a lot of times how loud some shit sounds has a direct relationship to how loud it is in relation to everything else (seems simple don't it!)

The vocals on all those My Bloody Valentine records being way down like that sure makes the guitars sound LOUD.

[tonewoods]

Rubber Soul sessions....

[jimmyjazz]

Try this as an alternative:

-- leave your monitor wiring as is (i.e., don't invert the phase of one monitor)

-- track the vocal with the monitors as loud as you like (avoiding feedback, for obvious reasons)

-- record a second track with EVERYTHING set exactly the same, except flip the phase on the mic preamp and have the singer stay silent. Nobody talks, nobody moves, nothing.


When you put both of those tracks at the same gain in the mix, the inverted phase of the bleed on track #2 almost perfectly cancels itself out in the primary track. Voila, a clean vocal track. The only problem is that you "waste" two tracks per track of vocal, but ultimately, you could comp them to a 3rd track and record over the original tracks. Or, if you're "in the box", you probably don't care.