Soldering

[snuffinthepunk]

Concerning soldering, what temps do you find appropriate for what different soldering applications? I can solder fairly well, I'm just not down with all the details. And do you have any tips for avoiding cold solder joints? I really want to do very well at this new job I just scored (even though it's a temporary thing) because it could be the beginning of a career.

Thanks guys!



Johnny

[Professor]

Hot enough to melt the solder, but not so hot that you melt the insulation on the wires.
Generally that's between 600-700? but may vary a bit based on the thickness of the wire, the size of the termination and the insulation material.

Another good tip would be to use a heat sink around delicate (and especially irreplaceable) components inside the console, like delicate transistors or ICs and hard to replace transformers.

Also, as silly as this might sound, make sure the iron is hot before trying to solder. If the iron isn't hot enough to melt the solder after a second or two of being on the components then you need to let it heat up more rather than sending that gathering heat energy into the component.
That goes hand-in-hand with the reminder to heat up the components before applying the solder.

Oh, and don't burn your fingers.

-Jeremy

[brianroth]

Use a low melting point "eutectic" solder, like a 63/37 alloy.

Bri

[LewKellogg]

A good iron can make all the difference as well. Spend at least $50 if you're going to do any reasonable amount of soldering. Buy a used Metcal ($150 to $200) if you want a great iron and do it enough to justify the price. Finally, buy a good set of wire strippers - The "automatic" kind that look kind of like a staple gun - not the brute force ones that look like very thin pliers.

[snuffinthepunk]

thanks for the tips guys, i appreciate all of it!

for now I'm going to be populating boards with whatever components...resistors, transformers, caps, switches, etc...for routing matrixes and pre-amps. I'll mention the heat-sink idea once I get there to the head tech over at the shop. I'm not sure how delicate the things I'll be working with are, but I'm sure I need to exercise caution with them as they're building a console with the intent of selling it (heck I'd use caution anyway, I wanna do a good job right!?). As far as the solder is concerned, they'll be supplying it, so I assume it'll be the right stuff for the job, as they're a reputable place with great tools. And...it's not silly to tell someone to make sure the iron is hot before using it, and to tell them to heat up the component first. I know a lot of people that would easily make that mistake (i don't include myself because i've worked around insanely hot stuff so long that I'm conditioned to be aware and never make that mistake, i've burned myself too many times in too many places)! Good lookin out though, prof!

I was told that lead based solder has a lower melting point, and silver solder requires a lot more heat to use without making cold joints. Makes sense to me, I assume this is true yeah?

Do any of you guys have tools from Circuit Specialists Inc? That's where I got my soldering iron, and was told that it's an exact replica as some high end quality soldering iron (forget the name, though. And, I wont be using my own at the shop, I'll be using their nicer ones).

Again, thanks for the input yall. The more the merrier, if anyone has anything to add keep it comin!



Johnny

[Professor]

I was told that lead based solder has a lower melting point, and silver solder requires a lot more heat to use without making cold joints. Makes sense to me, I assume this is true yeah?

Yeah, the more lead in the solder, the lower the melting point. Lead-free solder that's like 98% tin and 2% antimony melts higher like at around 480-500 if I remember right. Pure silver melts much higher like 750-800, but silver bearing solder that is something like 58-lead, 40-tin, 2-silver isn't that much higher than standard 60/40 - maybe only 10? higher or so.

And never grab the iron by the front. I did that once when I was soldering a patchbay back in Colorado and not paying attention to where I was reaching. I ended up with blisters in the shape of the vent holes right on the tips of my right index finger & thumb. ouch.

-J

[Recycled_Brains]

does anyone know of a good book, or online publication that is a sort of "how-to" for soldering.... soldering tips, techniques, etc.?

[Scodiddly]

I generally run 700-750F, a bit hotter for lead-free solder.

But the real trick is to work fast. Use a hot iron, get the solder in there and the iron off as fast as possible. It's worse to have a lower-temp iron and end up sitting on the connection for too long waiting for the solder to melt, because the heat is conducted off and starts melting plastic parts and killing components.

[snuffinthepunk]

thanks for all the input.

so today i was basically just "practicing" over there with their tools and the same boards i'll be working on...everything was super easy EXCEPT for the switches...the boards "vias" were killin me. I messed up/didn't do a good job on switches till my very last one (and thankfully now I have the knack of it). to heat up the vias and the pins on the switches stuck in them, I had to leave the soldering iron on them for a full two minutes before applying solder (using a very thin tip, though). does that sound normal? I had to do that in order to get the solder to not fall through the via and make a little mountain on the other side of the board as well (traces on both sides). I was worried all day about damaging the switches or the board by giving them too much heat. it really took that long to heat up though, and at close to 1000 degrees I was kinda paranoid about it all day (especially since I'm working on a console that is already sold).

Oh, and I DID get my first new burn, not from the soldering iron but from the DE-soldering iron =P

as far as working fast goes, I feel ya. That's why I'm gonna keep practicing on the most difficult stuff I can find. some of the stuff I might end up working on is either irreplaceable or expensive to replace.



J

[brianroth]

Scodiddly is right on the mark! The idea is to "get in and out" ASAP.

I've used a Weller W60 pencil iron ever since I learned of it during "training school" at Crown (makers of the power amps) back in the mid 1970's.

It's a temp. controlled pencil and I've used 700 degree tips. It's fine for circuit boards and things like XLRs and TRS plugs/jacks. However, I also have a Weller solder GUN for things like banana plugs.

In-between are items such as vintage tube gear with thick wiring terminals. My W60 doesn't have enough moxie to quickly heat the terminals so I fall back to the gun, and have learned to get in and out quickly with that.

Crown School also introduced me to 63/37 eutectic solder which has a comparatively low melting point, plus has the advantage of "clicking" from a liquid to a solid without an intermediate "pasty" mode...that latter solder state is where "cold solder joints" come from. Hence, ALWAYS use a solder with a eutectic characteristic.

It takes years of patience and experience to become proficient with soldering. That sort of experience is important when doing things like rewiring/refurbing/patchbay wiring/etc since a single bad connection can take hours to track down.

Bri

[snuffinthepunk]

Scodiddly is right on the mark! The idea is to "get in and out" ASAP.

I've used a Weller W60 pencil iron ever since I learned of it during "training school" at Crown (makers of the power amps) back in the mid 1970's.

It's a temp. controlled pencil and I've used 700 degree tips. It's fine for circuit boards and things like XLRs and TRS plugs/jacks. However, I also have a Weller solder GUN for things like banana plugs.

In-between are items such as vintage tube gear with thick wiring terminals. My W60 doesn't have enough moxie to quickly heat the terminals so I fall back to the gun, and have learned to get in and out quickly with that.

Crown School also introduced me to 63/37 eutectic solder which has a comparatively low melting point, plus has the advantage of "clicking" from a liquid to a solid without an intermediate "pasty" mode...that latter solder state is where "cold solder joints" come from. Hence, ALWAYS use a solder with a eutectic characteristic.

It takes years of patience and experience to become proficient with soldering. That sort of experience is important when doing things like rewiring/refurbing/patchbay wiring/etc since a single bad connection can take hours to track down.

Bri

I was thinking about the "in and out as quickly as possible" thing today when I started modifying pots for some cards and...with that advice, my soldering has never looked better nor been more efficient. Great advice!

My soldering iron's temp goes up to 896 (as well as the one I'm working with) so with a thick tip do you think it'd be stout enough for those thicker wiring terminals? And even with the high quality iron at work, it took a loooong time to heat up some of the stuff I was working on, maybe because of using a smaller tip...so yeah would a thicker tip speed up the process (and possibly save some wear and tear on the product)?

I got some silver bearing solder from radio shack and sometimes it takes a whiiiiile to go from solid to liquid and sometimes doesn't wanna change out of that intermediate state of being pasty...it's 62/36/2. And that's at 800 degrees, too...is that stuff just always crappy to work with?

The tech at the shop told me a lil about eutectic solder as well, and that it should definitely be used with fragile gear. Actually, I told him that I read the TOMB a lot and he said "oh yeah Brian Roth is the moderator of the DIY forum." Congratulations, you're quasi-famous.

[brianroth]

Be sure the tip is clean (use a damp sponge or one of those "brillo-looking" pads) and well tinned. Also be sure the tip is securely attached to the heating element...otherwise the heat transfer may be poor.

Bri

[lg]

Be sure the tip is clean (use a damp sponge or one of those "brillo-looking" pads) and well tinned. Also be sure the tip is securely attached to the heating element...otherwise the heat transfer may be poor.

Bri

ah, i was about to add that bit about keepin' it clean. also, (you wouldn't do this, would you?) NEVER sand the tip of your iron- once the tinned surface is compromised, it will begin to corrode, and eventually break.

btw, everyone, thanks for all the info- this thread has been quite useful!

[rjd2]

it sounds like you have a good workspace, so this may be a moot point, but also having the pieces firmly fixed down so they dont move at all can save you a lot of bother.



-i have been wondering recently, is breathing solder fumes bad for you? it seems i inevitably end up sucking on fumes now and then, just curious....

[dirty]

bottom line: fumes are bad. How bad, I don't know.

Also, my biggest issue when I was learning was that I didn't understand how vital a CLEAN tip is to the principle of getting in and getting out quickly.

I've used that Radio Shack tip cleaner stuff (looks like a lip balm container) and it seems to work, but I also just go crazy on the sponge right before I heat up a joint.

Basically, if the tip of the iron isn't bright and shiny, don't bother. Clean it first.