Warming up a digital mix!

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lotusstudio
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Warming up a digital mix!

Post by lotusstudio » Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:32 pm

Using Pro Tools and mixing in the box sounds good and clean to me, but what about adding some warm presence and punch to your final mix?

I tried using transformer based preamps as an insert on the master fader -not to boost the signal but just to run the final mix through the preamps to add some analog character to the sound.

Many such preamps like Neve clones such as Chandler, Chameleon Labs, Neve Portico, etc. have an eq section that can also be used to shape the overall mix.

Whatever I can do myself is probably as close as I'll ever get to mastering. I have been told pres are not designed to be used as mastering tools, but this seems to work. It sounds good and I'm satisfied.

I was wondering if a lot of others out there have tried this. And should I worry about hurting the pre or the transformers?

Could this be a simple solution - using something I alredy have for my front end to warm up the final mix? Or am I crazy?
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I'm Painting Again
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Post by I'm Painting Again » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:13 pm

not at all..whatever works..

sending a "line" level into a mic level input is not the optimal technical match for gain..but if it sounds good it sounds good..

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Post by dokushoka » Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:30 pm

I think the thing that I most associate with a "digital" sounding mix is the sound of clipped converters or plugins. The obvious solution (to me) for htis is to properly gain stage stuff, but, if I'm handed tracks to mix that have already been clipped, the story is different...

I those instances, I make lots of careful cuts with a nice eq to try and remove the offending frequencies. If I boost stuff, I find that using a discrete eq, preferably with a xformer, will really help. This is where discrete eqs really shine, IMO.

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Re: Warming up a digital mix!

Post by @?,*???&? » Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:51 pm

lotusstudio wrote:Using Pro Tools and mixing in the box sounds good and clean to me, but what about adding some warm presence and punch to your final mix?

I tried using transformer based preamps as an insert on the master fader -not to boost the signal but just to run the final mix through the preamps to add some analog character to the sound.

Many such preamps like Neve clones such as Chandler, Chameleon Labs, Neve Portico, etc. have an eq section that can also be used to shape the overall mix.

Whatever I can do myself is probably as close as I'll ever get to mastering. I have been told pres are not designed to be used as mastering tools, but this seems to work. It sounds good and I'm satisfied.

I was wondering if a lot of others out there have tried this. And should I worry about hurting the pre or the transformers?

Could this be a simple solution - using something I alredy have for my front end to warm up the final mix? Or am I crazy?
Send me a 24-bit .wav file of one of your mixes and let me bounce it off my Studer with Dolby A. You're gonna love it.

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Post by joelpatterson » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:15 am

Cost you $35.

I stumbled into the habit of taking a multi-band compressor, a shaving off one hell of a lot of the top end, everything above 5kHz--not dropping it out completely, but really toning it down--and that got rid of this "digital" hissiness, or not hissiness exactly because it's true-to-life accurate sound... but digital tends to accurately deliver so much top sizzle that it lends an unreal character to the sound, that's what I mean by "digital being artificial" or whatever people say.

You let the low end predominate, and in its case the digitality really helps, giving you full and "beefy-like" presence, true to the heft and powerfullness that was there in the original sound.
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Post by RefD » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:59 am

clipped, hashy highs are teh suck.

LPF that stuff.

as a starting point, 12khz w/6db slope.

i guess what i'm saying is "right on, Joel brothahman!".
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Post by trodden » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:36 am

I mix out of da box digi 001 and alesis ai-3 through a soundtracs that dokushoka sold me. I take the L/R outs which i keep kinda low due to what the board does when you get those levels up there and run each channel into the DI of my api 3124 and apply further makeup gain. I like what it does, sounds cool to me. so yeah, whatever works i guess, if it sounds good. doesn't necessarily "warm" things up but i can hear a difference doing that compared to using just the masterfader. i could be crazy though. in fact i'm still drunk from last night.

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Post by theBaldfather » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:00 pm

I've been trying out the idea of multiband compressing the highs, and I have to say, so far I'm a fan. it seemed a little extreme when I started, but my mixes are so much less fatiguing to listen to, that I'm starting to look forward to perfecting this technique. Thanks joel :-).
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Meriphew
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Post by Meriphew » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:43 pm

Mixing down to tape (1/2" or 1/4") will help.

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Post by chris harris » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:47 pm

If you guys are having to do that much processing to the highs of your stereo mix, you should probably start looking for things you can do at the tracking and mixing stages to correct that.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:05 pm

yeah i'm a little freaked out by the idea of either a LPF or a multiband compressor on the highs but hey whatevs.

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Post by Kyle » Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:26 pm

@#*&^%,

What do you mean by bounce it off? Are you just running it through the heads and back to the box or do you actually prin the song to tape?

I've been running the mix back through my soundcraft and back into the box. I'll have to try the tape machine too.
Kyle

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Post by theBaldfather » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:28 pm

If you guys are having to do that much processing to the highs of your stereo mix, you should probably start looking for things you can do at the tracking and mixing stages to correct that.
Yeah I know. I would think the same thing, but I think it's a combination of my firepod, cheaper condensor mics and a mediocre room. I add no high end to any of my channels or mixes ever. There is always plenty every channel by itself. My mixes finally have some fullness without wearing my ears out. I did do a little too much high end compression at the beginning, so I'm doing alot more referencing until I get a feel for it. I guess I do what i have to untill I can afford some really silky sounding pres and mics :-).
@studioquotes "producer: turn the gain up just a tad" "guitarist: is that the same as volume?" "Producer: actually the last take was great!"

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Post by Kelly » Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:41 pm

Get some analog compression going on.

There are some good digital EQs out there, but in terms of a good outboard compressor, that makes a big difference. If an intern can hear it, that's a big thing IMO.

I think A/D conversion has a big impact on the sound too. I've owned an Access Virus for about 6-7 years now, and I just recently got to try the PT HD Indigo version. It makes the same types of sound, but it comes no-where close to the tone of it's hardware counterpart. I'm convinced it's the D/A/D that's not happening on the software version.

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Post by lotusstudio » Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:29 pm

Now that someone mentioned analog compresison, it comes to mind that running my final mixes through my transformer based pres (which have a lot of headroom) does seem to impart some sonic qualities of compression. The mixes seem more saturated like filling in the empty spaces that were there because of the pristine quality of digital. But, at the same time they also feel more punchy.

Getting back to my original post, I was wondering: has anyone else has tried this - running mixes back through a couple of pres before bouncing to disc?
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