Are CDs dead?

[kweis7]

I play jazz which is definitely niche and am at least 90% musician and less than 10% engineer/producer. I play 3-4 gigs a week and make decent $. It is nice extra income but not enough to live on. I seldom use ATMs thanks to gig cash so the paycheck does not get touched for little stuff. Small time I suppose but it is fun and I love it; I keep progressing so who knows if I keep trying. Presently, I do have a day job (I.T. stuff, I listen to hours of music each day at work) which is better than not...

I have made a number of recordings that I use as demos and am finally getting around to recording an 'album'. I'm gonna track it myself and will probably get some pro help with mixing and mastering. I will have it professionally pressed. Labels, management etc. will be investigated but I'm not really all that concerned.

I figure, not counting ~25k in recordging gear, I'll spend ~6k on the album ( paying for session players (killer drummers live ~90 miles away), mix/master, and 1000 cd's). I'll probably mail out a good portion trying to get better gigs and will sell the rest, probably at $10 a piece. $10 because it is ez. I think if I did not sell them for $10 I'd sell them for $5 or $15 because they are ez #s too. I'll probably have some leftover for quite a while but that is not the point for me.

I NEVER thought I'd sell 100,000 cd's and make a bunch of money. There is a John Scofield quote that goes (roughly) : ' Every true jazz fan can buy your album and you still loose your recording contract'. I'm no hack but I am not John Scofield. Fortunately, he still has a contract!

But, I am pretty convinced a GOOD CD will get me better gigs (I've got enough gigs, I want better gigs). I've worked long and hard to play music the way I do and I LOVE TO PLAY LIVE MUSIC. For me, a CD is just a tool to get better opportunities to play live for people. Recording is a chance to put my musicianship under a microscope and get really critical and, in the process, get better. I'd have to sell a lot of CD's to come anywhere close to significantly bumping up my music income but I'm pretty sure sending the right people a GOOD album as a demo will land me gigs that will increase my income. The CD is a vehicle for awareness of my music.

I'll also put a few more tracks online as this has gotten me work in the past. If I thought it would get me gigs, I'd consider pressing some vinyl. Most folks I know don't have turn tables ( I do ) so I probably will not go vinyl.

So, for me, CD's are not dead.

[Jupiter4Jackie]

Sometimes I wonder if indie bands should invest in cd duplication. I mean, I've seen more interest from kids at shows when they get a flyer with a link on the net... Kids will log in and buy the mp3s online before buying a cd at a show and bring it home...

[rfire]

There is so much music out there- and the more there is, the less value anyone is gonna find in it. It's so hard to find anything meaningful or unique. Lots of sugar, but no meat. Buying a CD is probably going to be more of a political statement than a commercial transaction. Before I cranked up the studio, I used to burn and rip as much as anyone. But I always took great "care" to actually purchase the work of folks I respected. I figured that if their work was an important part of the the way I experienced the world, I should support them so they could do some more. When I started recording local music, developing the artists and distributing the results, I kinda got a new insight. I don't rip any more. I never much liked being a hypocrite, despite my dirty life and crimes. So it goes. Feed the people you love, and let the rest climper off into oblivion.

[swelle]

I think the Wrangler Brutes (McPheeter's now defunct band) had it right when they had professionally printed cassettes with the printed j-card and shrink wrap. Everybody was like "Holy Shit! A cassette!" There was the novelty factor for sure, but alot of folks still have cassette players in their cars. I know they sold quite a few...

[;ivlunsdystf]

This should settle the debate for good:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/s ... DFA59EE%7D

The debate will probably rage on, but it's an interesting read ...

[JMorken]

I've read the whole thread thus far and is very interesting.

As far as CD's becoming obsolete: Sure I have an Ipod full of music, but you can bet I have an original copy of all those tunes on a cd or record for when my hard drive fails (which it did last month). I would like to see a higher quality standard, but for 99% percent of consumers I don't think it will matter. It's just gonna get smushed to mp3-aac-wma-whatever. I don't think we'll see physical copies go out of style any time soon.

As far as moving CD's: My little indie band pressed a 1000 copies of our last EP. We made back all of our pressing and production costs the night of the CD release show. How? I busted my butt. I spent 2 months orchestrating a advertising campaign, flyering every other local show, renting the best sound and lights in town, and making sure it was an event! A strong business/work ethic can get you a long way. Great music can get you a long way. If you've got both, you shouldn't have any problems moving CD's. Although we still make most of our money selling t-shirts

[Johnny B]

As far as moving CD's: My little indie band pressed a 1000 copies of our last EP. We made back all of our pressing and production costs the night of the CD release show. How? I busted my butt. I spent 2 months orchestrating a advertising campaign, flyering every other local show, renting the best sound and lights in town, and making sure it was an event! A strong business/work ethic can get you a long way. Great music can get you a long way. If you've got both, you shouldn't have any problems moving CD's. Although we still make most of our money selling t-shirts

I'll take it that you're not in a hardcore band, then. I swear, every hardcore band I know records a CD (or a record, or both), gets the masters, then starts promoting the record release show. They inevitably book the show for about three days after the CDs are supposed to show up. If it's a record and a CD, they book the show for three days after the CDs are supposed to show up, then find out that the vinyl is going to take a month longer.

Then... There is some kind of cock-up and the CDs don't show up on time. And so there is a record release show with no record. Last one a few weeks back was one of the printing presses at the plant doing the covers broke down, so the plant that made the discs was waiting for the covers to show up so they could package them.

Moral of the story: Either give yourself like 6 weeks leeway, or don't book the show until you get the packages from the pressing plant.

[chris almighty]

I believe that not only are CD's dead, but the entire music industry. Why should anybody buy anything when it is available for free? I've been saying that since Napster first came on the scene. For every one person that buys an album there's dozens more who will just download it free. People that would have purchased it had it not been made available. So why pay high recording costs if there's no chance at making the money back? This is why there are fewer indy labels willing to invest in anybody anymore, and the likelyhood of a major has become even more of a longshot. It's also why we're bombarded with inferier recordings that aren't worth much anyways. I never understood why everyone was down on Metallica, Lars in particular, for going after Napster and other downloading sites. They were basicaly fighting something none of us would ever be able to afford to fight. So that maybe we can make a dime somewhere in the music industry. I agree with Metallica. It's not about free downloads. It's about the artist deciding whether they want to give it out free or not. Free music has hurt the major music companies, but it has KILLED the indy's. Soon music will be left for people to do as a hobby and only if you can afford it. Just like everything else. The irony is that the people that made it this way are the fans. Us.

[ubertar]

Chris, if you're right, maybe that's a good thing. If there's no money in music, maybe a lot of crappy music will disappear. All the slick, commercially oriented garbage, and all the wannabee rock stars-- if there's no $, there's no glamor in it either, at least not for long. Look at the art world, and who "makes it" there-- so much crap and bullshit for every rare thing that's good. Take away the money and maybe we'll be left with a higher % of stuff that's worthwhile. I don't think that's going to happen though. There will always be money involved in one way or another. And plenty of bullshit to go around. But maybe if there were fewer people getting filthy rich at the "superstar" level, there'd be fewer hopefuls at the bottom with stars in their eyes and people would know what they're getting into, and have a more realistic view of whether it's worth it or not. The whole system is screwed up, and needs to be torn down and built up new. It should be easier to make a decent living as a musician, but there's no reason for there to be "mega-stars", or stars at all, really. The whole American Idol mentality is disgusting, and that applies equally to the whole rock star image thing too, which is essentially the same thing, with different branding. Fuck the money. The money is the problem. Work part time and make music. Find some other way to make $, save up, retire early and make music. Or not early-- make music when you're old. Why is music so youth oriented? It's all about image. Half the bands that were successful before MTV never would have been afterward-- how often do you see ugly musicians or singers? Why don't we see old people making music who weren't already established when they were young? It's all about image, and money, and appealing to the lowest common denominator... nothing to do with music. I guess there are people in the more experimental side of things, but that has its own bullshit-- the bullshit of the academic world... what's "serious", what's "cutting edge", etc. Fuck all that.
*where's my meds?*

[chris almighty]

Damn that's a really depressing outlook. I agree with tearing the whole system down and rebuilding, but that's about it. Also I wasn't talking about the artists alone who lose. The engineers, producers etc. lose too. MTV, American Idols, etc., are not artists. Thier whores. But it's still a form of show biz.

[Wilkesin]

I think most people find a way to support a band they really like (whether that is a conscious decision or not), and that's not always through CD sales. I think Ubertar hit the nail on the head in the fact that most music is garbage, and the system needs to be rebuilt. But i have come to really want to seperate that stuff out as "entertainment" not "music", because to me "music" implies things like artisty, craft, innovation, production etc...most stuff is entertainment and CDs used to sell because a kid would choose to buy a 12$ CD and be entertained by it, but now they just have so many other choices and so much ADVERTISING telling them what else they should do with their "entertainment" dollars...

and that whole killing the indies thing...come on. Call that Josh dude that runs barsuk, or the saddle creek dude, or the Merge dude, or the Touch & Go dude/s and ask them if they are worried about where their next meal is coming from. They may not be rick james "rich bitch", but they are living comfortably and doing something they love...we should all be so lucky.

[percussion boy]

Chris, if you're right, maybe that's a good thing. If there's no money in music, maybe a lot of crappy music will disappear.

I wonder if an all-amateur recording industry can maintain the level of craft that the best of the pros did. The arts advanced when certain societies went beyond full-time hunting & gathering and could support professional artisans. This opened the way to an apprentice system and the accumulation of craftsmanship in the arts.

Do we get [insert your favorite album that used a pro studio, pro musicians, or a pro engineer] from weekend warriors, even good ones? How good would Rudy Van Gelder have gotten if he'd had to continue working the day job 5 days a week?

FWIW.

[chris almighty]

Chris, if you're right, maybe that's a good thing. If there's no money in music, maybe a lot of crappy music will disappear.

Yeah, unfortunely I think just the opposite has happend. I hate to sound so negative.

[ubertar]

Chris, if you're right, maybe that's a good thing. If there's no money in music, maybe a lot of crappy music will disappear.

Yeah, unfortunely I think just the opposite has happend. I hate to sound so negative.

I think we're in a transition period that will last a decade or more.

[ubertar]

Chris, if you're right, maybe that's a good thing. If there's no money in music, maybe a lot of crappy music will disappear.

I wonder if an all-amateur recording industry can maintain the level of craft that the best of the pros did. The arts advanced when certain societies went beyond full-time hunting & gathering and could support professional artisans. This opened the way to an apprentice system and the accumulation of craftsmanship in the arts.

Do we get [insert your favorite album that used a pro studio, pro musicians, or a pro engineer] from weekend warriors, even good ones? How good would Rudy Van Gelder have gotten if he'd had to continue working the day job 5 days a week?

FWIW.

There are ways to get by w/o working full time. It's not easy, but it can be done. And how many pro musicians make a living directly from the music? From what I hear, most touring bands make more from t-shirt sales than cds. Maybe music will be free, but artists will be supported through related merchandise-- things do seem to be moving in that direction.