Post about digital being too clear or something like that...

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

q1w2e3r4
pluggin' in mics
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:40 pm

Post about digital being too clear or something like that...

Post by q1w2e3r4 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:06 am

There was a post here a while back about the beauty in a bit of lack of clarity in recordings, or something like that. I've searched and searched and can't find it. Anyone remember it?

MoreSpaceEcho
zen recordist
Posts: 6560
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:15 am

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:58 am

was this it?
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=37327

i agree with not being able to hear everything perfectly clearly. a little haze makes everything more interesting. and i think if you can't tell exactly what's going on your brain will invent something, and often that will be more interesting than what IS actually happening.

that said i have no prob with mixing ITB. the sound of it anyway. i know i know i'm sure once i heard stuff through a nice board i'd like that way better but whatevs. not an option. and really i think everything you do at tracking is way more important than anything else...

User avatar
joelpatterson
carpal tunnel
Posts: 1732
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:20 pm
Location: Albany, New York

Post by joelpatterson » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:48 pm

My brain just invented something that wasn't there:

I think there's a whole undiscovered science of how the textures of the final mix provoke reactions in the listener. Sure, we all try for an "accurate" representation of the music that was happening, but the more you try for this, the more you realize that however elaborate the micing and however clean the preamps, you always only get an "arbitrary" version of what went on.

It's true that each person in the audience only hears an "arbitrary" version too, but there's a whole psychology of being there that invests the occasion with significance and meaning. When you are preparing a recording to be played back, you need to find a way to somehow "create" a significance. And my brain thinks that there's something about the interplay of the frequencies you boost and cut, emphasize and de-emphasize, that triggers some subliminal reaction.

Digital recording can give you the clean, clear, "definitive" audio--but that's not the same thing as something that's soothing and enrapturing. No, no, no.
Mountaintop Studios
~The Peak of Perfection~
Petersburgh NY 12138

mountaintop@taconic.net

mjau
genitals didn't survive the freeze
Posts: 3983
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:33 pm
Location: Orlando
Contact:

Post by mjau » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:22 pm

Those last two posts were really nicely put.
So, uh, yeah, carry on.

bobbydj
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5351
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 2:58 am
Location: astride the vortex console
Contact:

Post by bobbydj » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:12 am

joelpatterson wrote:My brain just invented something that wasn't there:

I think there's a whole undiscovered science of how the textures of the final mix provoke reactions in the listener. Sure, we all try for an "accurate" representation of the music that was happening, but the more you try for this, the more you realize that however elaborate the micing and however clean the preamps, you always only get an "arbitrary" version of what went on.

It's true that each person in the audience only hears an "arbitrary" version too, but there's a whole psychology of being there that invests the occasion with significance and meaning. When you are preparing a recording to be played back, you need to find a way to somehow "create" a significance. And my brain thinks that there's something about the interplay of the frequencies you boost and cut, emphasize and de-emphasize, that triggers some subliminal reaction.

Digital recording can give you the clean, clear, "definitive" audio--but that's not the same thing as something that's soothing and enrapturing. No, no, no.
So joel - when *are* you going to buy that Nagra?
Image

Bobby D. Jones
Producer/Engineer
(The Crudballs, Tyrone P. Spink, The Fuxx, Shitters, The Geighs...)

drumsound
zen recordist
Posts: 7121
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:30 pm
Location: Bloomington IL
Contact:

Post by drumsound » Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:01 am

bobbydj wrote:
joelpatterson wrote:My brain just invented something that wasn't there:

I think there's a whole undiscovered science of how the textures of the final mix provoke reactions in the listener. Sure, we all try for an "accurate" representation of the music that was happening, but the more you try for this, the more you realize that however elaborate the micing and however clean the preamps, you always only get an "arbitrary" version of what went on.

It's true that each person in the audience only hears an "arbitrary" version too, but there's a whole psychology of being there that invests the occasion with significance and meaning. When you are preparing a recording to be played back, you need to find a way to somehow "create" a significance. And my brain thinks that there's something about the interplay of the frequencies you boost and cut, emphasize and de-emphasize, that triggers some subliminal reaction.

Digital recording can give you the clean, clear, "definitive" audio--but that's not the same thing as something that's soothing and enrapturing. No, no, no.
So joel - when *are* you going to buy that Nagra?
That is what all the "cool kids" use for location recording.

:wink:

User avatar
joelpatterson
carpal tunnel
Posts: 1732
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:20 pm
Location: Albany, New York

Post by joelpatterson » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:26 pm

Well then, the answer would be... soon as I turn into a cool kid.
Mountaintop Studios
~The Peak of Perfection~
Petersburgh NY 12138

mountaintop@taconic.net


User avatar
@?,*???&?
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5804
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 4:36 pm
Location: Just left on the FM dial
Contact:

Post by @?,*???&? » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:29 pm

It's a dynamic range issue really. Digital has great dynamic range, analog tape does not. Tape fills in that most disarming space.

A similar experience is remembering that song you haven't heard in years and then revisiting again and realizing what it is you were actually hearing. Perhaps hearing more than you remember or perhaps less. I've been floored by some things. Guitar lines that I remember, but yet were not 'focus' parts of the song. Harmony vocal balance too. Pretty weird.

User avatar
inverseroom
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5031
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 8:37 am
Location: Ithaca, NY
Contact:

Post by inverseroom » Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:37 pm

Joel, that is an awesome post.

My own technique has over the years evened out to: good mics, good tube and other analog pres, decent analog hardware compressor, into digital medium. And then editing, adding effects, sequencing, etc. in the box. The best of both worlds, with the "character" of tubes and transistors mixed with the versatility of DSP.

Of course maybe my music sounds like crap.

User avatar
joelpatterson
carpal tunnel
Posts: 1732
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:20 pm
Location: Albany, New York

Post by joelpatterson » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:29 pm

inverseroom wrote: Of course maybe my music sounds like the serenade of a soaring eagle circling endlessly over the vast canyons of empires in the desert.
Mountaintop Studios
~The Peak of Perfection~
Petersburgh NY 12138

mountaintop@taconic.net

User avatar
inverseroom
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5031
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 8:37 am
Location: Ithaca, NY
Contact:

Post by inverseroom » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:40 pm

Possibly, yes.

User avatar
joelpatterson
carpal tunnel
Posts: 1732
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:20 pm
Location: Albany, New York

Post by joelpatterson » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:46 pm

Unless it's the mournful cry of uptopias waiting to be born.
Mountaintop Studios
~The Peak of Perfection~
Petersburgh NY 12138

mountaintop@taconic.net

bobbydj
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5351
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 2:58 am
Location: astride the vortex console
Contact:

Post by bobbydj » Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:37 am

Utopiai?
Image

Bobby D. Jones
Producer/Engineer
(The Crudballs, Tyrone P. Spink, The Fuxx, Shitters, The Geighs...)

Knights Who Say Neve
buyin' a studio
Posts: 985
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:27 pm
Location: The Mome Raths Outgrabe

Post by Knights Who Say Neve » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:13 am

1 utopia, 2 utopia, 3 or more utopiai.
"What you're saying is, unlike all the other writers, if it was really new, you'd know it was new when you heard it, and you'd love it. <b>That's a hell of an assumption</b>". -B. Marsalis

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 67 guests