what to charge

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nystrec
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what to charge

Post by nystrec » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:34 pm

Lets say I'm charging a band $150 a day for tracking. What do I charge for mixing when the band will not be present? Charge by the song? Or just a flat rate? I use to do alot of mixing for free but I'm getting sick of certain people wanting me to change the mix 10 freakin' times. I know it would be ideal to charge a daily rate and have the client there during, but that hasn't been an option lately. So what would you do?

cgarges
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Re: what to charge

Post by cgarges » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:35 am

nystrec wrote:So what would you do?
I charge the same thing for tracking, mixing, setup, transfers, and listening to talkitive lead singers. I can't remember the last time I mixed something without the band there, but I would charge the same thing for that, too. I always give the band the option of being there and prefer it. But if they don't want to be there, it would be hard for me to give them what they want if they're not there to tell me what they want. My time is my time and I have to pay for use of a studio, so if I'm working for somebody, I don't see why they should expect me to do the work for free.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

xonlocust
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Re: what to charge

Post by xonlocust » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:01 am

cgarges wrote:I don't see why they should expect me to do the work for free.
chris, chris! don't you see - it's YOUR priveledge to be working on thier record! i mean, who has money to spend at a studio - we're talking about bands here. there's also that one dude in that one band in town who will do it for free, so why shouldn't you?

hey! it's my birthday!

(sorry to derail the thread)

cgarges
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Re: what to charge

Post by cgarges » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:13 pm

xonlocust wrote:it's my birthday!
Hey Happy Birthday, Nick! Going to Europe any time soon?

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

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AnalogElectric
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Re: what to charge

Post by AnalogElectric » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:32 pm

nystrec wrote:Lets say I'm charging a band $150 a day for tracking. What do I charge for mixing when the band will not be present? Charge by the song? Or just a flat rate? I use to do alot of mixing for free but I'm getting sick of certain people wanting me to change the mix 10 freakin' times. I know it would be ideal to charge a daily rate and have the client there during, but that hasn't been an option lately. So what would you do?
That's a tough one. I've had bands come in from out of state to record and we spent the whole weekend tracking. None of them had the option of returning for the mix or I was booked solid for the next several weekends (when they could come in but I was unavailable).

In that case I'll give them a slop mix to take for the ride home. In a couple days I'll then make a mix of one of their stand-out (primer) songs and either send a CD or post an uncompressed wav/aiff for them to critique/give feedback on.

Generally, if I have a primer, like above, I'll charge them a full day's worth... or two if it's a more challenging mix (more than six 3 to 4 minute songs - with lots of trixxx).

Really, if the band isn't there for mix, you don't want to screw them by a possible "made-up" hours spent. If I tell them it's gonna be a whole day rate to mix and after they get the mix they have little things here and there, that's when I'll go hourly. If it's something like "We (the band/client) want the backing vocals to be louder"... or something akin to that -- it's something easily changed.

If it gets to the point where it feels like nothing will ever be perfect (10th time going back and forth), it's probably time to be honest with them and get someone in during the mix... or start charging so much that they'll feel forced to come in.

I've run into situations where it's one of two band members that fight over a mix... and in the end, when I finally throw my hands in the air, someone will say, "Ya know what, we like the first mixes you gave us now that we had time away from it".

Overall it's a tough thing to approach. What I'm really trying to get at is be firm from the beginning. Don't bend over backwards for them cuz otherwise most people will take advantage of you. THEY elected not to be there, probably for a reason that you shouldn't have to put up with without charging your time's worth. Karma and "nice guy/gal" is one thing, but exploitation? It only makes you frustrated more than they are.

I think most musicians think engineers, no matter what level they're at, do this stuff at the same cost as they want to spend (next to nothing for everything).

As of RIGHT NOW, stop mixing for free. Even tho I feel bad for taking extra time tracking, it makes the mix so much easier in the end. I always ask as we're tracking, "Does this sound good? Do you like the tones?"

I always say, during tracking, "Listen to tones, not individual track volume... for right now"

Most of my band-absent suggestions have been as simple as a volume change other than tone... also (rarely) panning or FX.

I think I'm babbling too much now. I've dealt with this more times than I'd like to admit but in the end it works out... especially if I charge (honestly) and I'm forward/upfront with them. Confidence as an engineer is underrated... you'll find that a majority of bands will respect you more, come back to you, and suggest you to others.

Okay, NOW I've said enough, I think... does all that make sense? If not, let me know.

-- Adam Lazlo

P.S. -- Happy B-Day, Nick :)
AnalogElectric Recording
Gilbert, Arizona USA
http://www.analogelectric.com
http://www.myspace.com/adamlazlo

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Jupiter4Jackie
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Re: what to charge

Post by Jupiter4Jackie » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:01 am

nystrec wrote:Lets say I'm charging a band $150 a day for tracking. What do I charge for mixing when the band will not be present? Charge by the song? Or just a flat rate? I use to do alot of mixing for free but I'm getting sick of certain people wanting me to change the mix 10 freakin' times. I know it would be ideal to charge a daily rate and have the client there during, but that hasn't been an option lately. So what would you do?
What to charge depends on the band and your relationship with them. If you find they are talented and its really not a chore to record them, thats when I find you can be flexible with the mixdown as far as cost but the best part is they are choosing for you to make the decisions.

If they are indecisive and a pain to work with, I would suggest you use your flat rate for mixing just as you would for recording. Let them pay for your time if they want to change it again and again. Not done with the mix? Pack up and start again tomorrow and charge them another day for it.
"...he reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says "Actually, I think you need a little more development." Swim again, please. Backstroke. And he does of course."
- Steve Albini, The Problem With Music

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