Recording GUITARS - thin / weak tone - PLEASE HELP!!

ganoosh · Post by **ganoosh** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:15 pm

I'm having some trouble recording electric guitars. I keep getting a really thin, shitty, mid-ranged tone. i feel like i've tried everything.

gear i am using: Pro-tools, Fender Jazzmaster (USA), 1976 Marshall JMP 100 watt head, 4x12 marshall cab. MICS: Rode NT2, AT4033, Shure 57.

i'm just trying to get an all-around nice, clean tone. I tried all of the above mics, one at a time, in several positions, on several different speakers, close, far, etc... and i keep going back to my Line 6 POD. so far, i have not been able to match / beat the tones that i'm getting from the POD. (I really like the BRIT CLASSIC setting on the pod). I REALLY don't want to rely on a freakin' POD, but so far, that thing has the best tones that i have heard lately. The Marshall amp that i'm using sounds fuckin' great in the room (loud), but when i mic it up, it sounds weak, and thin. i don't think that i'm having any phase issues since i'm only using 1 mic at a time. trying to keep it simple, ya know? ..i kinda wish a had Fender Twin to play with, but i don't right now.. all of the mics i have tried keep giving me that thin, weak, mid-ranged tone.

I'd REALLY appreciate any input on this subject. sorry so long.

thanks,
Joel

gigantorbuzz · Post by **gigantorbuzz** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:14 pm

what mic pres are you using, stock Digi?

regardless... start with the 57. i usually prefer it in the center on axis. once youve gotten that sounding as good as you can, flip the phase on it.. and bring in the 2nd mic. move the 2nd mic around until the sound has almost cancelled itself out. once you find that spot, flip the phase back, and you should be pretty rockin.. try it

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:48 pm

What kind of room are you in? If you are playing very loud in a small room, you might need to use a lot of dampening.

have you tried putting a mic where your ears are when you like how the room sounds? I'd try your most neutral-sounding mic. Do you have any omnidirectional mics? Your room might be giving weird phase issues that show up more in directional mics. Sometimes the cancellation pattern that creates a cardiod pattern in the mic gets ugly with room reflections added in.

Also, a four-speaker cabinet can get weird when you close mic it. You might need to move the mic around and point it all over the place to get what you want. One trick is to turn the amp volume way up with an instrument plugged in, so you get buzz and hum (not feedback). It shouldn't be very loud. put on some headphones, monitoring the mic. Go and move the mic around until the buzz and hum sounds best, and leave the mic there. Using this method, one time I had a mic about 2 inches from the floor, pointing at it, and about 3 feet in front of the cabinet. It sounded great.

If all else fails, there's no shame in using the POD if it gives you what you want!

Good Luck.

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:01 pm

I just re-read your post and noticed you said "loud." I don't know if there is a formula for this, but there should be. I have seen that the larger the speaker surface area, and the higher the wattage on the amp, the more room an amp needs to sound good. It seems like there is a saturation point, and the more you exceed it, the thinner the amp sounds.

It has been said on this board and many others that the biggest sounding amps are smaller ones. After all, Brian May of Queen used a Vox Pathfinder to record, and that is a tiny amp.

I recorded one guy who has a Marshall half-stack and I split the guitar signal to go to his amp and my home-made half-watt Ruby amp, the Ruby sounded bigger and thicker.

curtiswyant · Post by **curtiswyant** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:22 pm

Remember that what sounds great in the room may sound like shit through a mic. I play with mic placement while monitoring through isolation 'phones, it really works great. Or record/tweak/rerecord etc until you get a nice sound. Even the slightest 1/2" movement of the mic can make a world of difference!

ganoosh · Post by **ganoosh** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:14 am

thanks for all of the positive feedback everyone! i'll have to re-think this and try some of your suggestions.

the amp is in a pretty reflective room. i'll try some dampening, and mic placement tricks.

thanks again!!

joel

Slider · Post by **Slider** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:11 am

Make sure you're not on a bad speaker too.
I'll sometimes start with 3 57's on different speakers to see what's going on with them, then go from there.

rhythm ranch · Post by **rhythm ranch** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:34 am

You might also try turning down the amp. Sometimes a little less volume and a little less distortion can help enlarge the tone.

Auslander · Post by **Auslander** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:11 am

Randy wrote:I just re-read your post and noticed you said "loud." I don't know if there is a formula for this, but there should be. I have seen that the larger the speaker surface area, and the higher the wattage on the amp, the more room an amp needs to sound good. It seems like there is a saturation point, and the more you exceed it, the thinner the amp sounds.

It has been said on this board and many others that the biggest sounding amps are smaller ones. After all, Brian May of Queen used a Vox Pathfinder to record, and that is a tiny amp.

I recorded one guy who has a Marshall half-stack and I split the guitar signal to go to his amp and my home-made half-watt Ruby amp, the Ruby sounded bigger and thicker.

I worked on several Queen albums, and Brian used Vox AC 30s on those.

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:48 am

Auslander wrote:
I worked on several Queen albums, and Brian used Vox AC 30s on those.

cool. I was going on this thing at the bottom of the page:

http://www.musictoyz.com/guitar/amps/voxamps.php

It might just be marketing hoo-ha. And I remembered it wrong, it wasn't a Pathfinder, but another homemade 10-watt amp that Vox sells as the Brian May Amp.

pandatone · Post by **pandatone** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:07 pm

whata bout putting all them mics up.. and mixing them together?
front, back, top, close, far, etc. then double it!
mix till happy..

panda

8th_note · Post by **8th_note** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:54 pm

Here is the mother of all guitar recording resources: Slipperman's Recording Distorted Guitars From Hell

You might also try turning down the amp. Sometimes a little less volume and a little less distortion can help enlarge the tone.

I've had very good results with this technique as well. Don't be afraid to experiment with the amp sound to get what you're after.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:50 pm

wither put a hunk of carpet in fromt of the amp on the floor or gget the cab up off it. The early reflections fromthe floor can do some weird shit. I also sugest some other mics, not of those sound good on electric guitars to me...

ganoosh · Post by **ganoosh** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:58 pm

what mics do you think are best for recording electric guitars?

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:04 pm

ganoosh wrote:what mics do you think are best for recording electric guitars?

I like Beyer M88 and TGX50, Sennheiser 421, AKG d12e recently. The one time I had a chance to use a Soundelux e47 one of the things I used it on was electric guitar and it was really cool. I used to like the Stedman N90 but it's been years. Shure 315 is kinda neat sometimes. The Chinese ribbons are OK.

I commented because two of the mics on the list I find kinda shitty for everything and the other I don't have a ton of experience with, but haven't been impressed by either.

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Recording GUITARS - thin / weak tone - PLEASE HELP!!

Recording GUITARS - thin / weak tone - PLEASE HELP!!

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