iTunes over your FW interface - high sampling rate?

[thethingwiththestuff]

my control room is my bedroom. when i listen to music, i often do it through my motu 828mk2 and alesis active monitors. i've been treating the room with 703 all week, and have noticed lots of imaging and low end improvements.

however, the other night, i was particularly impressed with how much more detail i heard in some of the music i use to listen critically to a system. (otomo yoshihide's new jazz ensemble, ellipsis' 'control and resistance,' can 'ege bamyasi' , *cough* the new joanna newsom *cough*, sonic nurse...) i suspected the few pieces of insulation i had put up could not have made that much of a difference. i realized the 828 was set to 88.2, which is where i usually record.

i've listened back to itunes often at both 44.1 and 88.2 but never went crazy a/b-ing them. i noticed a pretty damn obvious difference in both transient punch and verb tails when i finally did. 44.1 was much much "wimpier," really.

anyone ever try this? this was only playback of commercial music, and mostly mp3's, at that.

[joel hamilton]

my control room is my bedroom. when i listen to music, i often do it through my motu 828mk2 and alesis active monitors. i've been treating the room with 703 all week, and have noticed lots of imaging and low end improvements.

however, the other night, i was particularly impressed with how much more detail i heard in some of the music i use to listen critically to a system. (otomo yoshihide's new jazz ensemble, ellipsis' 'control and resistance,' can 'ege bamyasi' , *cough* the new joanna newsom *cough*, sonic nurse...) i suspected the few pieces of insulation i had put up could not have made that much of a difference. i realized the 828 was set to 88.2, which is where i usually record.

i've listened back to itunes often at both 44.1 and 88.2 but never went crazy a/b-ing them. i noticed a pretty damn obvious difference in both transient punch and verb tails when i finally did. 44.1 was much much "wimpier," really.

anyone ever try this? this was only playback of commercial music, and mostly mp3's, at that.

This makes no sense.

[thethingwiththestuff]

i'll try again...... i'm listening to commercial music through my motu, and i've tried setting the interface to operate at both 44.1 and 88.2. i heard a noticeable difference listening at the higher sampling rate.

i guess i'm just going nuts.

[joel hamilton]

i'll try again...... i'm listening to commercial music through my motu, and i've tried setting the interface to operate at both 44.1 and 88.2. i heard a noticeable difference listening at the higher sampling rate.

i guess i'm just going nuts.

I dont mean your ears... or you... or your post, or your observations...

What I mean is that the source file determines the playback... the sample rate at the converter shouldnt have anything whatsoever to do with playing iTunes...
There is usually some sort of driver that loads when you are using your nicer hardware interface to play something like itunes, and IT lets the converter what sample rate is required...
I mean, unless you are getting something interesting to happen with the filtering inherent between 44.1 and 88.2... but somehow not affecting playback speed or just plain old freaking out the app... right on to you then!

I really do wish that the filters were variable so I could hear 44.1 without all the anti-aliasing... just to hear it.... then same with 88.2.... just to hear it.

[JohnDavisNYC]

thought i'd chime in... while i haven't compared the sound quality... MOTU hardware will stay at 88.2 while playing back files from itunes... i think that core audio somehow outputs whatever sounds are internal at the sample rate that the converters are... i dunno... it's definately wierd... joel, you'll have to come over when you're feeling better and we can have a 44.1 vs. 88.2 MP3 shootout....

john

[thethingwiththestuff]

yeah, i realised you probably meant "that's not likely."

i figured it would have something to do with the behavior of the mid-level converters in an interface like the motu828 at a higher sampling rate. obviously, i'm still listening to 44.1 16 bit CD tracks, converted to mp3's no less, and i cant change iTunes' sample rate. i was using my control software for the motu to switch back and forth.

wouldn't this be comparable to putting something like the Benchmark DAC in front of my monitoring?

[thethingwiththestuff]

thought i'd chime in... while i haven't compared the sound quality... MOTU hardware will stay at 88.2 while playing back files from itunes... i think that core audio somehow outputs whatever sounds are internal at the sample rate that the converters are... i dunno... it's definately wierd... joel, you'll have to come over when you're feeling better and we can have a 44.1 vs. 88.2 MP3 shootout....

john

yeah, toaster understands how i have it set up. however, if i'm using the 828 and its drivers, is CoreAudio being used at all? i know it'll do 24 bit, but i thought the sampling rate only went up to 48k for the mac's internal conversion, or at least my version.

anyway, i'd love to have some corroboration on this!

[joel hamilton]

thought i'd chime in... while i haven't compared the sound quality... MOTU hardware will stay at 88.2 while playing back files from itunes... i think that core audio somehow outputs whatever sounds are internal at the sample rate that the converters are... i dunno... it's definately wierd... joel, you'll have to come over when you're feeling better and we can have a 44.1 vs. 88.2 MP3 shootout....

john

So WEIRD! What does the core audio panel say when you have the hardware set to 88.2, and itunes is playing? does it actually just pipe MP3's to the hardware as 88.2? that is BIZARRE.

Sorry to the original poster... no hardware I have ever owned would do such a weirdo thing.... SO totally my own lack of experience playing itunes out of MOTU hardware led me to such a blatantly wrong post.

I guess motu wins the "best converter to rock itunes out of your monitors with, regardless of source sample rate" award...

[thethingwiththestuff]

i hope to be a presenter at that award ceremony!

my contention is that CoreAudio, at least in OS 10.3.9, only goes up to 48k, and that when the MOTU is plugged in and all sound outputs are set to go through it, that the MOTU drivers and interface take over and operate at whatever sample rate chosen through the MOTU control panel for the interface.

[joel hamilton]

i hope to be a presenter at that award ceremony!

my contention is that CoreAudio, at least in OS 10.3.9, only goes up to 48k, and that when the MOTU is plugged in and all sound outputs are set to go through it, that the MOTU drivers and interface take over and operate at whatever sample rate chosen through the MOTU control panel for the interface.

do you hear a playback RATE change when you set it to 48? is coreaudio defaulting to 44.1 no matter what? will I ever be the same again????

seriously, that is some weird shizzle.
Oh, BTW, this should be in the COMPUTER forum!!!!!!
(some moderator I turned out to be on pain pills)...

[cdbabel]

i hope to be a presenter at that award ceremony!

my contention is that CoreAudio, at least in OS 10.3.9, only goes up to 48k, and that when the MOTU is plugged in and all sound outputs are set to go through it, that the MOTU drivers and interface take over and operate at whatever sample rate chosen through the MOTU control panel for the interface.

In 10.4, CoreAudio goes up to whatever your audio interface can handle. However, it can cause glitches, such as no sound in Flash Video Playback (YouTube).

This doesn't make any sense, because I believe iTunes forces CoreAudio into whatever sample rate the audio was converted into. I think this because when DP forces CoreAudio into higher sample rates, iTunes will fight it, causing major glitches.

[thethingwiththestuff]

joel - do i hear a rate change, as in, does the music change tempo and pitch? nah. however, i've never made changes through coreaudio, just my interface control panel.

maybe i dont know too much about coreaudio. when i've tried to work out little sketches without my interface, the built-in engine only goes up to 48k, but it does 24 bit. i assumed i was either using CoreAudio or the 828, which perhaps is true for DP but not iTunes. i am doing all of this on 10.3.9, not 10.4 Tiger.

cdbabel's post leads me to believe i misunderstand coreaudio, if it is indeed ALWAYS driving iTunes, though again, i'm not in 10.4 maybe toaster was more accurate then in saying it outputs at whatever rate the interface is set for.

i suppose this has turned into a computer post. sorry! i didnt know this phenomenon was so uncommon, i was just trying to discuss playback of music through high-sample rate gear.

[joel hamilton]

joel - do i hear a rate change, as in, does the music change tempo and pitch? nah. however, i've never made changes through coreaudio, just my interface control panel.

maybe i dont know too much about coreaudio. when i've tried to work out little sketches without my interface, the built-in engine only goes up to 48k, but it does 24 bit. i assumed i was either using CoreAudio or the 828, which perhaps is true for DP but not iTunes. i am doing all of this on 10.3.9, not 10.4 Tiger.

cdbabel's post leads me to believe i misunderstand coreaudio, if it is indeed ALWAYS driving iTunes, though again, i'm not in 10.4 maybe toaster was more accurate then in saying it outputs at whatever rate the interface is set for.

i suppose this has turned into a computer post. sorry! i didnt know this phenomenon was so uncommon, i was just trying to discuss playback of music through high-sample rate gear.

Whatevs, it is interesting... and completely weird. I am talking about 10.3.9 as well... Coreaudio is always present when playing itunes, and core audio should be telling your hardware it wants whatever itunes wants, not whatever you have the front panel set to. Whenever I use core audio to play reason, for instance, out of the digidesign HD hardware, the digi core audio driver loads, and promptly switches the hardware to whatever reason is set to (usually 44.1 ). when I open itunes, same deal if my default sound output is set to digi, then when I run something that uses core audio, up comes the digi coreaudio panel and the hardware clicks over to whatever sample rate the program calls for. The hardware doesnt tell the software what to play back at... it is the other way around (lets not get into external clocking for the moment).

[thethingwiththestuff]

well that's good to know. sounds like this might just be a MOTU thing. does that mean if i upgrade to RME or Lynx i'll lose this awesome quirk?? maaaan this shit sounds good, even through my friggin' Alesis...es. Aleses?

anyway..... I Have Noticed a Dramatic Improvement in Casual Listening Merely Using Hi-Res Playback...was my big statement! Night and day difference.

[JohnDavisNYC]

i tunes seems to be the only one that doesn't 'grab' the interface... wierd... all audio apps do, but all the OS related audio will play back normall no matter what the interface says... the interface (in my case) stays at whatever setting the last audio app was set to...

wierd. silly. wierd.

john