The "Cost" of Pro Tools Compatibility

[Regular Guy]

I've been dipping my toe in the water about recording gear for way too long and I finally have the cash and the time, but I'm still not ready to jump.

I was a week or so away from pulling the trigger on a Firepod or a used MOTU 896 when I started to realize that perhaps it would be beneficial to use some sort of Pro Tools System. I thought it might be good to become more familiar with the (controversial) software that some (but certainly not all) people see as the industry standard recording software. Also, using Pro Tools I imagine it would be much easier to bring my sessions to different places for mixing, adjustments, extra tracking or whatever. Or alternatively I could track drums in a studio somewhere and bring them home much more easily. It's little things like that that make being a Pro Tools user seem more appealing.

However, there doesn't seem to be a device that has everything I want. Built-in preamps are important to me because I want to be able to drag the equipment around and do sessions in all sorts of weird places...the less there is to carry the better (even if there are obvious sonic consequences). None of the Pro Tools systems in my price range (or in any?) come with more than 4 preamps so I would need either a set of outboard preamps or a board. Both of these options would result in me spending an additional $1k+ (probably much more) for something that is good enough such that I won't have to sell it later on or be angry about it the entire time I own it as my skills develop.

Of the two options it does seem slightly more appealing to get a board so I can perhaps one day embrace my long standing delusions about tracking to tape... In this situation I would need a Digi 002 Rack + A board with a bunch of inputs. OR an M-Audio 1814 + A board with a bunch of inputs...argh

Hopefully this posting makes enough sense for someone to smack some additional sense into me...I've frozen up again!

[Mix413]

If you are planning to run a commercial situation, having PT is a must IMHO. There will be phone calls asking if you have PT, and if you say no you will most likely lose potential business. Easy transfer back and forth between other studios is important these days, so again, having PT is the way to go.

Those things said, if you're planning on a personal-only studio situation, those factors are not as critical.

[kayagum]

You could get an Alesis HD24 and a board...

... or a Tascam FW1884 or related mixing surfaces and a laptop (shouldn't that work with ProTools?)

... or a M-Audio Project I/O mixing surface (that definitely should be ProTools compatible).

Regardless, you should be able to send track files to and from practically any application, so personally owning ProTools isn't absolutely necessary. Many people on this board have made their living without it- use whatever makes you feel comfortable.

There are plenty of options.

[mingus2112]

Well there's no question about ProTools being the industry standard. It just IS. The debate is WHY and SHOULD IT BE? ProTools isn't a bad system. I really hated it at first. Part from general principal (which was stupid) and part because usage didn't make any sense to me (coming from Sonar and Logic). Once you get past the learning curve (and there IS a curve on ANY daw software) it's a pretty robust system that I think you'll do well with.

If inputs is what you're worried about, get something like the DIGI002 and then get the Behringer ADA8000 lightpipe interfact. That will give you 8 EXTRA mic preamps to plug in. The quality is on par with the internal preamps of the 002 or other similar units. For around $150 on ebay you really can't beat it! (i'd actually recommend this even if you DON'T go with protools!)

You could also look at some of the maudio options. With a cheaper maudio interface (that accepts 8 channels via lightpipe), the Behringer unit i mentioned and protools mpowered, you'd have a pretty cool rig!

-James

[A.David.MacKinnon]

If you're planning on doing work that will end up in a few different studios then pro tools is the way to go. I just finished a record that went through 5 different studios as well as a mobile location style session and the only reason it all worked was because of ProTools.

[joel hamilton]

I've been dipping my toe in the water about recording gear for way too long and I finally have the cash and the time, but I'm still not ready to jump.

I was a week or so away from pulling the trigger on a Firepod or a used MOTU 896 when I started to realize that perhaps it would be beneficial to use some sort of Pro Tools System. I thought it might be good to become more familiar with the (controversial) software that some (but certainly not all) people see as the industry standard recording software. Also, using Pro Tools I imagine it would be much easier to bring my sessions to different places for mixing, adjustments, extra tracking or whatever. Or alternatively I could track drums in a studio somewhere and bring them home much more easily. It's little things like that that make being a Pro Tools user seem more appealing.

However, there doesn't seem to be a device that has everything I want. Built-in preamps are important to me because I want to be able to drag the equipment around and do sessions in all sorts of weird places...the less there is to carry the better (even if there are obvious sonic consequences). None of the Pro Tools systems in my price range (or in any?) come with more than 4 preamps so I would need either a set of outboard preamps or a board. Both of these options would result in me spending an additional $1k+ (probably much more) for something that is good enough such that I won't have to sell it later on or be angry about it the entire time I own it as my skills develop.

Of the two options it does seem slightly more appealing to get a board so I can perhaps one day embrace my long standing delusions about tracking to tape... In this situation I would need a Digi 002 Rack + A board with a bunch of inputs. OR an M-Audio 1814 + A board with a bunch of inputs...argh

Hopefully this posting makes enough sense for someone to smack some additional sense into me...I've frozen up again!

Just to be clear:

If you got an 002, with an alesis AI3 with two sytek's and an API 3124+, you would have 16 I/O and 16 mic pre's in a SIX SPACE RACK! Crazy....

Anyone that "does not see" Protools as the industry standard has not ever been in an industry standard studio. Period. I am not debating good/bad I am stating a fact. Every single real professional studio with a DAW in it has a protools rig.
There are fifty billion other studio's with other things that try to talk about how what they have is better because of this or that... how about this fake phone call:
"i have a 3 inch tape machine! It is a 3 inch 16 track. it sounds AMAZING. no, nobody else can play it. No, i cant do overdubs or mix from your 2" tapes. No, the 3" tapes will not play on anyone elses tape machine... no..no... BUT IT SOUNDS AWESOME!!!"

Look at it this way: you can build yourself an island. a beautiful island built only to serve you and your needs. everything you need is there... BUT... it is really hard to get back to where everyone else is, and just as difficult for them to get to you. Does that sound appealing? Get something other than protools.

There are too mny reasons to list here this morning about why or why not to get something.

Protools is the standard. that doesnt mean everyone likes it, or has to. who asked about a cell phone standard? We all just "had to accept" that>...?

The standard in this case seems to be defined by "most often found in a professional circumstance" so if that is something you want to get in with...

yes, radar sounds good(or logic, or cubase, or whatever...LIVE). yes, you can record with anything. yes, I am ranting.

[Gebo]

I used to use protools, and I liked it, but I didnt like the interface options that were offered. I switched to Logic when the Ensemble came out, and dont regret it. I record mostly bands that wouldnt know the difference, or dont care and dont plan on taking their session somewhere else to mix or whatever. I also record myself and my own band a lot, and Logic works great for this (lots of sequencing power that my PT 5.3/001 setup didnt have). Also, you CAN bring files recorded in pretty much any daw into any other daw, just not as seemlessly and easily. You just need to decide what fits your needs...
what Joel said about the island is 100%... I built an island that works for me. However, I do this for fun not for a living, so conforming to industry standards isnt very important to me.

[LewKellogg]

I?ve used most of the others (Sonar, Cubase, the list goes on) and switched to Pro Tools because it is the standard. That translates into several things that are not obvious at first. If I need a book, there is one written. If I need help there is someone with my same problem. If a customer calls ?Yes, I have Pro Tools?. The list goes on of things that you don?t expect. Are there limits? Yes. Is it expensive relative to other options? Perhaps. Does it work. Yep. Would I go back? Nope. (And I still own licenses to the other stuff so I could switch easily). Not to say I didn?t like the other choices. But I?ve never regretted the move. As always, YMMV?

[kayagum]

This could be interesting, me taking on Joel

I have no doubt that ProTools is the standard for commercial studios. Notice I didn't say professional. Professional does not always equal commercial or vice versa. Maybe this is a bad case of BS hair splitting semantics....

You DON'T need ProTools to create professional quality recordings, and some may even argue that ProTools may actually hinder a certain quality of music production.

You almost certainly need ProTools to maintain a viable commercial operation, since the format is the lingua franca between clients, peer studios and probably even mastering.

Microsoft Office is the standard for commercial office software. But that doesn't mean you have to write the Great American Novel in Microsoft Word, but Simon & Schuster and your literary agent may like it in that format.

Joel owns a commercial studio that does high volume, high quality kick butt work. He probably can't stay solvent without PT, and that's why he has invested 5 digits into his rig.

I have a basement studio where I work generally alone, do enough projects so that I can legitimately debate whether it's worth filing a Schedule C, but no more than that, and I don't really need to interact with mastering houses or full blown commercial studios. That being said, my work has held up on the first tier theater circuit in Minneapolis, which is my goal and niche. I can get away with using Adobe Audition.

Hopefully this will get people to think if - and more importantly, how - they would use PT vs another software DAW.

[trodden]

uhhhh what?

you don't need protools to make good recordings?

no way.

[kayagum]

uhhhh what?

you don't need protools to make good recordings?

no way.

Way.

And I'm thinking Joel is still feeling crabby from his recovery. It's not like him to being that grouchy. Hope he's feeling better.

[trodden]

uhhhh what?

you don't need protools to make good recordings?

no way.

Way.

And I'm thinking Joel is still feeling crabby from his recovery. It's not like him to being that grouchy. Hope he's feeling better.

I want an hd system. that would be hella rad. til then its digi 001 or bust!

[JGriffin]

I want an hd system. that would be hella rad.

It's fun, I gots ta say.

[trodden]

I want an hd system. that would be hella rad.

It's fun, I gots ta say.

what are you doing here? you're supposed to be on the way to the post office to ship me my lexicon! slacker.

[joel hamilton]

This could be interesting, me taking on Joel

I have no doubt that ProTools is the standard for commercial studios. Notice I didn't say professional. Professional does not always equal commercial or vice versa. Maybe this is a bad case of BS hair splitting semantics....

You DON'T need ProTools to create professional quality recordings, and some may even argue that ProTools may actually hinder a certain quality of music production.

You almost certainly need ProTools to maintain a viable commercial operation, since the format is the lingua franca between clients, peer studios and probably even mastering.

Microsoft Office is the standard for commercial office software. But that doesn't mean you have to write the Great American Novel in Microsoft Word, but Simon & Schuster and your literary agent may like it in that format.

Joel owns a commercial studio that does high volume, high quality kick butt work. He probably can't stay solvent without PT, and that's why he has invested 5 digits into his rig.

I have a basement studio where I work generally alone, do enough projects so that I can legitimately debate whether it's worth filing a Schedule C, but no more than that, and I don't really need to interact with mastering houses or full blown commercial studios. That being said, my work has held up on the first tier theater circuit in Minneapolis, which is my goal and niche. I can get away with using Adobe Audition.

Hopefully this will get people to think if - and more importantly, how - they would use PT vs another software DAW.

All true, including being grouchy. I am getting better though....

It is good to see someone show the other side of the coin in such a good light.