What is the REAL glyn johns setup?

helmuth · Post by **helmuth** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:56 am

yeah I know, cymbals are individuals, enough thread stealing, thanks again!

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:58 am

brad347 wrote:
drumsound wrote:You might want to swing the floor tom side mic around so its catching more of the drum-set.

Oh, you gonna need some mic cables...
re: the floor tom side mic... so that "pointing toward the hi hat" thing is just a guideline? Could you give a little more detail as to what you mean by that?

Yes, I know I need cables

I was just putting mics up last night and hadn't run cables yet. For sake of quickness to snap this pic to get yr help!

Thanks!!

What I mean is that in the picture theThe floor tom mic is at about 3 O'clock and I'm suggesting putting it around 5 O'clock so it points a bit tword the tom and crash as well as the snare.

Your recording sounds great. Those cymbals are the shit! I'll give you a$40 each and you'll double your money.

What is the project you'll be doing? Is it a straight up jazz thing?

??????? · Post by **???????** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:07 am

Thank you!

I'll hold onto my cymbals though

There's no real fixed project. I just got my 002 rack in the mail yesterday and am doing some experimenting. I'll probably be doing a variety of stuff here at home... I play in a few rock bands and also do some jazz stuff. Down the line I want to record an entire project where I play all the instruments and sing... totally do everything myself. I think that would be a fun exercise at least, if not artistically gratifying! I do have a bandmate coming over this weekend to start work on some pre-production demos for an eventual project (in a real studio).

re: the floor tom mic, I did as you suggested. It's still largely pointed at the hi hat, but I moved it back (toward the drummer) and angled it in very slightly. It's still almost straight across the floortom and snare though. Sorta like now it's pointed at the edge of the hi hat instead of the center (if that makes any sense, probably not!)

The recording sounds a little "dull" to me. Is that my imagination? All I know is it sure sounds a lot better on my nice monitors than it does after bouncing it down to 16 bit 44.1 and listening through my built-in computer speakers.

I'd like to be able to get really good sounds just from mic placement instead of a lot of EQ.

I'm Painting Again · Post by **I'm Painting Again** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:27 am

I just got the same exact ride..I payed 150$ though..sounds great but I wish I knew about this deal..

??????? · Post by **???????** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:31 am

Toolshed of Death wrote:I just got the same exact ride..I payed 150$ though..sounds great but I wish I knew about this deal..

It was a total score. It was posted on craigslist... they were clearing out their back-stock of warranty returns. There was like a crate of about 400 cymbals and they were all warranty returns, varying degrees of cracked. $20 each for rides and $10 for crashes. I got there first and picked out 4 rides for myself and two rides (22" alchemy and 20" traditional medium) and a 20" alchemy thin crash for my drummer. Then I called every drummer I knew and gave them the tip! It was a good day.

I'm Painting Again · Post by **I'm Painting Again** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:39 pm

that is awesome!

I really like that ride..the istanbul nostalgia..it goes real well with my K custom fast crash..

Recycled_Brains · Post by **Recycled_Brains** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:26 pm

that track sounds really nice! so natural sounding. i can't wait til my improv. group can find time to record so i can try this set-up out.

-ryan

WindowSills · Post by **WindowSills** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:28 pm

Here are a few pics taken by Russ Schlagbaum during the recording of Pete Townshend & Ronnie Lane's "Rough Mix" album at Olympic Studios. Glyn Johns produced it and has commented that it may just be the "best" album he's ever done. These photos can be found in a gallery of about 50 shots on the new DualDisc version of Rough Mix. I tried to do a screen capture, but my computer freaked out on me, so I just grabbed the digital camera and shot the screen.

These pics were found on Ethan's Three Crows Music site and were taken during the sessions at Allaire and Three Crows for Ray Lamontagne's new record. In the top two (at Three Crows I believe), it appears that they're only using a bass drum mic and a single overhead. Also note that Ethan only has a high-hat and a ride - no crashes!

??????? · Post by **???????** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:15 am

Windowsills, that is an INCREDIBLY helpful post. Thank you very much!

I'm going to have to do more experimenting today. It looks like, contrary to 'conventional internet wisdom,' the side mic is a foot or more off the floor tom (rather than 4-6 inches, as I read somewhere) and angled down toward the snare rather than "straight across pointing at the hi hat" as a popular google search result suggests.

I wonder how important it is that the top and side mics be the same type? I have a very limited mic selection, but I do have an AT 4033 and a modded Oktava ML-52-02. I might try the Oktava ribbon mic as the side mic and the 4033 as the OH just to see. I'll also try out this revised side-mic placement. If I do any better than I have already, I'll post the results.

??????? · Post by **???????** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:55 am

OK here's my latest experiment.

I went

AT4033 = OH
ML-52-02 = "side"
M-88 = kick
e609 = snare

I also raised the mics up a bit to look more like Windowsills' pictures.

Sounds different but kinda cool. Darker. More old-school. What do you think? On my computer speakers I tend to prefer my earlier version with the MK-012s but on the headphones I prefer the darker version. On the monitors they're both good, just 'different. I think the outer lobe of the fig 8 pattern of the ML-52 tends to pick up more of my completely untreated room, which while not totally terrible is not spectacular either. The toms are definitely more balanced with this placement. Now i'll have to go back to the SDCs and see if the new placement gives better results.

http://www.soundsdifferent.com/mroozik/ ... ent_03.mp3

??????? · Post by **???????** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:45 am

OK, so this experiment was a little more controlled, I tried the new, higher mic positions with my original mics, the dorsey modded MK-012s, as the overhead and side mic. I think the result might be my favorite so far!

http://www.soundsdifferent.com/mroozik/ ... ent_04.mp3

For reference, here are the other two:

ribbon and LDC overs:
http://www.soundsdifferent.com/mroozik/ ... ent_03.mp3

SDC overs, positioned lower:
http://www.soundsdifferent.com/mroozik/ ... ent_eq.mp3

My favorite thing about this technique so far is the amount of stick sound you pick up from the ride cymbal(s). Since that side mic is down kinda low, it's right by where the stick is hitting the cymbal, and since the cymbal radiates its sound above and below in a figure 8 pattern, you're closer to the cymbal wash's "null" point and simultaneously closer to the point of contact of the stick against the cymbal. I love that!

It seems like it could be a great technique for jazz although it's (as far as I know anyway) usually associated with rock. Who knew?

WindowSills · Post by **WindowSills** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:17 pm

Can anyone identify the square-ish mic:

It's used as a bass drum mic on the kit Kenney Jones is playing in the pics I posted above. It's also seen elsewhere in the Rough Mix gallery - as a distant mic on Pete Townshend's Fender Bandmaster (the amp he plays his Gretsch 6120 through).

I'd have to say I liked the "number 4" experiment the best as well - it seemed nicely balanced. Can you do one with some rock beats (just a boom-snik, boom-snik with eighth notes on the hi-hats)?

nlmd311 · Post by **nlmd311** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:28 pm

WindowSills,
The mic in the picture looks like an AKG D12 in a shockmount.
I can't find any pictures of a D12 in a shockmount right now to post, but I have a feeling that is what that is.

brad347,
The clips sound great! Better each time, although I think my favorite is the one with the Oktava as the side mic. There is a really great character to that recording that I really like. Would sound great as a jazz set up and seems you are really able to work the mics by varying your dynamics and playing level.
Really cool. Thanks for sharing your experiments.

-Darrill

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:11 pm

=AKG D25

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

jetboatguy · Post by **jetboatguy** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:49 pm

here`s a pic of a D25

so...
apart from a similar microphone boby design, what's the difference between a D12 and D25 ?

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What is the REAL glyn johns setup?

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