at what stage do you lay down the drum tracks, first.. last?

[thefiremelted]

im working on a solo album in about a month so im looking for a little input... usually in a song i record drums first since they keep the beat, but im going to be using a metronome on this project... so im curious, when do you guys lay down the drums? do you prefer to start the song with them or do you add other instruments first?

[;ivlunsdystf]

First, then almost last, the first go-around being a rough draft. That's assuming click track.

[NewAndImprov]

I just finished a project where we tracked stuff to a click then added drums later. Some of the tunes were fairly finished when we added drums, on the rest, the drummer played to guide tracks, and then we retracked everything else after the drums. The stuff where we added tracks after the drums went a lot easier.

Think about it, just because there's a click setting the tempo doesn't mean that everyone is phrasing to the click the same way. In most bands, the drummer sets the way the whole band relates to the tempo, usually this is done pretty intuitively. In the tunes where the drums were tracked last, I had to do a lot of editing of the instrumental tracks to get them in the pocket with the drums. In the other tunes, the drummer set the pocked and everybody just naturally phrased with the drums.

[John Jeffers]

Speaking as a drummer that has tried tracking after other instruments were laid down, I can tell you that it's really hard to do, and the results usually aren't great. IMHO, drums should pretty much always be first, whether or not you use a click.

The instruments that are recorded afterwards should follow the feel of the DRUMS, not the click. The click is there to establish a timing reference, not to determine the feel of the song.

[jckinnick]

Speaking as a drummer that has tried tracking after other instruments were laid down, I can tell you that it's really hard to do, and the results usually aren't great. IMHO, drums should pretty much always be first, whether or not you use a click.

The instruments that are recorded afterwards should follow the feel of the DRUMS, not the click. The click is there to establish a timing reference, not to determine the feel of the song.

I concur

[curtiswyant]

I usually record a vocal/guitar scratch track, then drums, then everything else. I can't get a good "feel" on drums by playing along with nothing!

[joelpatterson]

Alot of bands will play all together, at the same time, but then I have had the experience of walking into a bar, and the guy on the mic goes, "Hey, how y'all doin' tonight? Here's our drummer, he's going to lay down the beat, and then afterwards me and the bass player will add our parts."

[standup]

I try to record the band playing the song, making sure the drums are sounding good. Anything else can be replaced later, usually.

If it's just me building up a tune part by part, I use fake drums and the drum part is a minor part of the tune.

But mostly I record bands I'm in. The ideal (to me) is to record everything at once to the extent it's possible.

[sears]

I do a lot of drums last. It yields a totally different feel. Looser, like a salad. If you have a band or song that follows guitar or bass, it's worth a try.

We're used to listening to tentative bass players who, eyes on the kick, are terrified of leading the way; why not try drums that way?

If the drums end up sounding late you could try sliding them back a few units.

If you do drums last, add a percussion part as well.

I recently put a song tracked this way -- no click -- on "my stuff" which has kind of a loose, jerky beat. BION, it's what we wanted.

[Johnny B]

Usually I record bands, and in every case, it's been drums bass and guitar all together. Sometimes parts have been replaced, but the initial backing tracks have been together. When I was in a metal/industrial project band thing with no drummer, we pretty much always programmed the drums and put them on tape before we did anything else.

For the track I'm working on for the TOMB Beach Boys thing, I put down the bass to a click first and then did the drums. Guitars will go next, and then everything else.

Laying the drums down later can give an different, looser feel that works well for some material. For good examples, check out the Velvet Underground's Loaded album or the full band stuff on Syd Barrett's The Madcap Laughs and Opel.

[dirk_v]

The project I'm mixing right now began as a singer/songwriter project where we decided to lay down some guide tracks before tracking drums. We did basic keys, guitars, bass, and scratch vox up to the date of the drum session. But instead of tracking everything to a straight click, we used Groove Agent to generate a basic beat that had the feel he envisioned on the final track. Our intention was to start re-building the songs after tracking drums, but we had accomplished so much that already had the right feel (and it didn't hurt that the drummer was an amazing player), that 90% of the original tracks just stayed in place after we were done drums - even one of the "scratch" led vox, sung into an sm57. We overdubbed a few guitars, did vocals, and voila.

Maybe not the best approach around, but luckily it really worked out in this case. Next time out, we're hoping to track the whole rhythm section together, so stay tuned. Mixes at www.myspace.com/liontheifs if anyone's curious.

-dv

[mjau]

Speaking as a drummer that has tried tracking after other instruments were laid down, I can tell you that it's really hard to do, and the results usually aren't great. IMHO, drums should pretty much always be first, whether or not you use a click.

The instruments that are recorded afterwards should follow the feel of the DRUMS, not the click. The click is there to establish a timing reference, not to determine the feel of the song.

I concur

Yup.

[Auslander]

I recently mixed an album where everything had been recorded to programmed drums. Those tracks were very tight, but the programming was only a guide, and real drums were the intended direction.

So, the real drums were then added, but in the end most of the instruments had to be re-tracked, simply because the feel the original gtr and bass tracks had didn't match the organic real drums.

All in all, I think it was a shame, simply because the original stuff was perfectly fine. I was asked if the other stuff could be "nudged" to put it in time (Pro Tools) but while it probably could have to a point, it would have been a botched effort imho.

I would never have suggested going about the recording in this order. If it's a clicked project, the drummer doesn't need final instrument tracks to play with, just good solid guides that can then be replaced by keepers that feel great with the drums.

[T-rex]

As another drummer, I totally agree with John Jeffers. Over the last year I have had a few things where I put down drums last and it was really tough. Even though they were some great tracks and in solid time etc. it was really hard to get a good feel and make the drums really work with the songs. Until then I have only tracked with live musicians (with and without click) and I had no idea how hard it was.

When I play with a rough scratch track that things will be layered on, or the best situation, - tracking live - it is always soo much easier. The tracks feel better and come together much quicker in my opinion.

[Kilroy]

im working on a solo album now, when i use live drums, ill record the basic tracks and then record drums. Then do any over dubs needed after that.

Im going to try next song to record a couple scratch tracks and drums, then record the main guitar work and bass stuff.