An open question to the community..

[joel hamilton]

I have only had a few lame interns. They flaked. I was glad. Only one was asked not to come back, another I just stopped calling.

I wound up with a great assistant, who is 25 years old, from this process.

You can always spot a "lifer," meaning someone who really has the bug as much as anyone can get the bug for recording.

I cant imagine doing anything else, and it is refreshing to meet someone younger than me that also feels that way.

There is no "blame" to be laid on anything or anyone, times change.....

I love what I do. I am busy, and I am busy with quality projects, working with good people, all over the place.

I must be lucky....

[Kasey]

I don't really know enough to comment on the situation as a whole. But, if it shows anything I'm 16 and I'd love nothing more than to be an engineer one day. The entire process is fascinating, its an art form all of its own, but still intwined in the art of music - its amazing. Every chance i get I'm down in my humble studio experimenting and making weird noises tying to explore the medium. I've started recording my friends also. I've been doing it since I was about 12 years old. I've gotten myself into studios to sit in on sessions locally, and even managed to get into studios in chicago on occasion. It's hard to not ask questions. i plan to study recording in college as well, though I'm not sure it will help me. It'll be a learning experience either way.

I'd love to become an intern at a local studio, but there aren't many around where i live and I work a lot.

I'm the only person I know that is interested in recording though, most other people seem to only be interested in it for the sake of their music.

i do think that the nature of the 'recording industry' is a little terrifying. It doesn't seem to matter how enthusiastic and eager and willing to do hard work I may be.

[spacelabstudio]

I'm late getting in on this thread. My impression is most people are lazy--it's not just a recording thing. Which is why most people aren't going to do something that's really hard to do, like, say, winning the World Cup, or making a living as a recording engineer. That's fine, you know, different priorities and all that. These are still perfectly nice people. Just not motivated in the same way by the same things. But I usually want to be around people who do have some kind of drive and inner motivation--people who are interested in stuff, and are driven to pursue something for it's own sake. Life is short--let's get the most out of it we can, right?

Which is why I have yet to turn down a recording gig of any kind. I will figure out how to make it happen, whatever it is. I can't imagine anything more fun or rewarding than getting up in the morning and recording music all day for a living. One of the most valuable experiences I ever had was a a few years ago I was lucky enough to get invited by Mark Nevers to hang out with him for a few days in a big Nashville session (for the Palace Greatets Hits record)--I learned more in a few days watching Marky and those session guys than I could have in years of figuring it out on my own. After ten years of doing this now, in addition to a "day job", I feel like I've learned some stuff and am planning to finally start cutting back on my day job hours to fit it all in and start making the transition to full time engineer/musician. But I fully acknowledge that hanging out with other pros who know what they're doing could only make me better.

So if there's a dearth of good help out there, sign me up! Will travel! I'm in NC, so anywhere on the east coast is pretty easy for me to get to. I'd love to help out with folks who've come up from a different path and/or are farther along than I am. Can do short stints for little to no pay--just happy to be there. Longer gigs will obviously require some sort of subsistence level rent/food type income. I'll send you samples of my work. I work hard. I'm smart. I'm technical. (BS in Physics, dayjob as computer programmer.) I'm not green, as far as recording goes. I've been doing it on my own for about 10 years now. I know some stuff but am always trying to learn more. And the people I work with think I'm pretty good. (I often think, god what a terrible job I just did on that, I should be better, but fully acknowledge that I'm my own worst critic, and most of my clients walk away perfectly happy with their recordings. Others see this as being too hard on myself, but I don't see this is a fault, per se--just drives me to keep learning/improving, whether anyone around me thinks I need to or not. I don't sink into despair or anything--I just try to be fairly objective/dispassionate about my limits, such as they might be. And if I didn't impress myself, I don't try to pretend like I did.)

Sorry for the rambling nature of this post--I am slightly sleep deprived--too much rock! Well, never enough. Did I mention I play in bands as well? And compose film scores? I speak and cook Italian . . . .

Call me! Let's get to work!
Chris

[matt lindsay]

i know this blog is from november, but interesting to me. i've been recording professionally for 6 or 7 years. pretty average engineer. not very computer literate. taught myself how to use the makie hdr24 stuff. anyways, the attitude of the kids. i am 36, and a little more jaded than that in rock and roller years. when i was a teen we cut tracks on tape, and rehearsed our asses off before we got to the studio. nowadays kids are not just in a band: they also have 100 other hobbies and after school activities. they don't spend the time to develope a critical ear for music and mixing. they also want ME to fix all their mistakes on the computer. i accidentally got good at microsurgery on the makie because everybody plays so sloppily. it is just understood in the current generation that you show up with a rough draft, and the sound guy fixes it into perfection for you. and as someone mentioned earlier, instant fast-food gratification and the market flooded to the gills with kids graduating with recording degrees. i just lost a job to a kid with a laptop and 5 mics. not kidding. but those kind of clients are shitty about paying and shitty with their arrangements and shitty with their focus as a band, so i guess i'm happy to paint a house instead. happy holidays!

[Kevin Kitchel]

I was a crappy intern. I wish I knew then what I know! INTERNS: Put in the time!

[kayagum]

they also want ME to fix all their mistakes on the computer.

Why does that surprise you? Between the internet and their parents, nobody has to learn anything on their own.

Check that- no one has to DO anything on their own when helicopter parents do the homework for them. Or they can plagiarize from the internet.

Is technology good? I'm starting to wonder...

[ENthaWizeGuy]

Right now I am currently studying at an audio engineering school. Before this school I was 3 years into college and did not enjoy anything I was doing. I spent much of my time partying and wishing I was recording. Since I started at the school back in December, my life has completely changed. I no longer party, I barely go out with friends and I have no time for woman. The funny thing is 6 months ago I would have thought a life without all those things would lead to me being miserable. I have never been more happy. Yes, I get extremely stressed on a weekly basis, but I am also learning everyday. I actually enjoy watching and helping out with sessions where I normally might not have had interest in before because of the style of music more now than the ones that fit my tastes the most... why??? because I always learn from each session. The mistakes people around me make, are just one more thing to add to my list of things I will know how to fix when it happens to me in a session in the future and the tricks I learn from them as well, will help me make the recordings all the better. Anyways I do worry on a daily basis about the intern life. I am looking forward to it very much, but am also worried that at some point financial situations will lead to me having to hold another job that will take my focus away from where I am interning at. Anyways it is about 6am and I have class in a few hours but this post has inspired me, so I thought it would be one of the first i responded to. I had been thinking about how to improve my personal communication and work ethic skills for a while, but peoples horror stories of interning and certain cities had started to scare me. Thank You you guys for taking the time to post your opinions and thoughts on here. Messageboards are the 1st place i began to learn about music when I was younger and am always very happy to find new ones that are not filled with posts of junk. Maybe I will be lucky enough to cross paths with some of you in the future.

- Ian

p.s (sorry if this post is all over the place, but I am tired so I am a bit loopy right now, but i wanted to reply to this now since this is one of the best posts i have read on any board in a while.)

aim: enthawizeguy

[littlepokey]

I wonder about this. I think that people are drawn to the romantic idea of recording (at least I am). However, I imagine that most people come to recording music through playing music. I know I did. I ve been dicking around with 4-tracks since I was about 14. I am now about to turn 40 and have been doing this for quite some time now. Despite the fact that I still consider myself to be a young person, I have noticed that it seems harder for a young(er person than I) to get behind a recording project if they don't personally believe in the music. It's easy to get excited about recording when you are recording your own music. When recording someone else's "lame country album", then it just becomes work. And boring work at that. Sitting there logging track sheets allows a lot of time to be daydreaming about thier own impending rock-stardom. One day maybe I ll become a rock star too (although this is becoming increasingly unlikey due to age, loss of hair, loss of my youthful girlish figure, etc...)

One advantage I feel I have in my local music community is that it s easy for me to get excited about a project. Especially if its something new or outside my comfort zone. I am lucky that most of my clients come from word of mouth, and people here know that I am an excitable geek when it comes to making records (or jingles, or film scores, or even VO's...) But as a business owner, I dont want the negative energy at my studio. When a client walks in the door, it's important to me that no matter what they are doing, they are met at the door with enthusiasm. If they are behind their art enough for them to come in and commit it to tape, then I feel I should treat their project with the same amount of respect. In fact, I have words to that effect on the home page of the studio website.

I know this sounds geeky (or even NEW-AGE-HOKEY-POKEY), but I really feel that a recording studio is a magic place where there are endless creative possibilities, and having negative energy from surly employees/interns is very counterproductive and can rub off on the image that the studio has. I d rather just go get my own damn coffee. Anyway, I guess that's my 2 cents on that.

[Smitty]

wow!, what a great thread... seriously.

we need to figure out how to take the business back.

not that i have any answers.

the thing is, alissa, in a way we are. it isn't happening overnight, but it is happening.... from the local music festivals receiving national audiences, to the bloggers who use technology and the internet to promote music of a niche genre to those previously missing out on it, to the 14 year-old kid with the digital multitracker in his bedroom. in a lot of ways, the wheel has been reinvented in the past 10 years when it comes to how music is made, distributed, and sold. duh, right? but unlike the advent of 8-tracks, or compact cassettes or CD's, this is way bigger. it changes EVERYTHING, every part of the process, including recording.

companies like Apple that had enough foresight to get in on the ground floor are cashing in. some big labels that didn't are kicking themselves for not doing so and scrambling to figure out how. the popular music scene today is full of low-talent bands that rode a wave of trends and PR hype to their fame, and the road along the way is littered with great bands that should have made it but didn't. very few people are making decent money in the music industry as a whole, and most of the people who are aren't the creative ones. duh, right?

what's so different today is the seemingly available and immediate opportunity for the up and coming musician/engineer to bypass all that, to find a detour around an industry that obviously leaves so many creative people feeling disillusioned and used (and, lest we forget, broke). while that goal is fine on it's own... the way this new process is marketed often makes it seem easier than it is.

we (the younger generation) need to learn from you (the older generation) so that the art, and not just the practice of recording is not lost. you need to teach us and weed out those whose hearts aren't in it. both of us need to keep our heads up and be willing to adapt our crafts to the way the business is changing, or we're all going to be kicking ourselves later.

[ENthaWizeGuy]

i agree 100 percent, why would anyone feel comfortable recording... if the people around them could not even show the least bit enthusiasm. I know I get excited getting anything to tape, and seeing how all genre's of music are recorded.

[sthslvrcnfsn]

(1) Personal Experience and History

Some of these posts made me furious and some of them gave me hope. I have had 3 internships in the last 5 years, I have been 100% dedicated to each of them, and 5 years later I am still 100% dedicated to recording, and would put in a full effort if I could get another internship. The bug has bit me, and it's not going to let go, I can guarantee that.

I too went to recording school. The attitude I had upon leaving was that I finally had the basics pretty well learned, and now it was time to put that basic knowledge to use, and have some experienced people teach me some more advanced things. And the feeling I had most strongly was that after graduating, I could get in somewhere where I could be assisting or doing something on a daily basis, so I could really hammer home everything I learned through repetition. I didn't think I knew everything there was to know, nor did I think that I was ready for a studio owner to immediately give me a ton of responsibility (not for lack of being capable...).

Two of those internships I had were terrible, but I stuck with them. They were pretty similar, in that my duties consisted of cleaning bathrooms, waxing floors, and the like. That wouldn't be so bad, and I would've been more than happy to put in my time on the bottom rung, if there was any benefit or learning derived from it. But there wasn't. At both places I begged to assist on a session. I begged to have any of the engineers show me around the equipment and do some demos for me during down time. I had to beg to even get my hands on any manuals at both places - and I was only successful at one facility! They wouldn't even let me near the manuals. Both of these places duped me into doing shitty work for free, without giving me any opportunity to even learn!

That being said, the other place I interned at was great. I was a regular part of every session, either running the patchbay or tape machine, taking notes or filling out recall sheets, or being the service guy (getting coffee, etc). At least there I could watch and ask questions, and be able to learn things - both through repetition and asking questions at the end of each session. Also, they let me go in at night when the place was closed and remix old 24-track tapes for practice - as long as the second engineer, who I befriended, was there. It was a dream interning there. Every internship should be so nice.

***

(2) Thoughts on the State of Things

Before I go on, I should say that I will be 24 next week, so by all accounts I am a young buck, or a "kid" as some people say. I know these kids who sit and fuck around on MySpace all day, and these kids who just want to "get on with it" and be the next hot shot producer by tomorrow afternoon. They are an absolute waste of time, and while I am not the owner of or a staff engineer at studio, I can empathize with those folks about hiring these kids or letting them come around and then having it blow up in your face.

What makes me upset is that I have gotten turned down for probably close to 100 internships in the past 2 years (that includes 2 different big cities). I can't even get into a studio to help out for free. And who does get in? These idiots who are there for the wrong reasons. It leaves the studio owner or head engineer with a bad taste in their mouth, and very little desire to have interns around. Like I said, I can empathize with those people, but it still frustrates me that I cannot get an internship because of those idiot "kids". Couple that with the fact that lots of studios are closing because of the bedroom-recording-revolution, and it makes this career path look dimmer and dimmer for me. This is what I want to do - my heart is set on it - but there are few opportunities, and that number is declining.

As far as choosing this as a career path, I am aware of the nature of being an engineer. I'm not in this to make a fortune, and I know it's not there. I'm not in this for the glory, because I know it's seldom there. I just enjoy tracking, mixing, the miscellaneous audio work, and working on gear. That is something else I would like to do on the side if I ever become an engineer down the road - work on my gear tech skills, and be able to repair equipment, and eventually design and build it. anyway, I'm in this for what I believe is the right reason - the sheer love of recording. Period.

I have been accumulating my own recording setup at home, and contrary to trends, it is more along the lines of a wannabe professional studio that a happy-meal-sized, all-in-one, digital bedroom setup, so please don't be angry. In addition to recording myself and bands that I am in, I have recorded a number of friend's bands over the past few years, and it is helping me to sharpen my skills. These are bands (including mine) that wouldn't have gone to a professional studio regardless of my recording gear - this is being done for fun and not because any of us are trying to "make it". I would still prefer to be an understudy to a real professional, but doing this sure beats doing nothing at all.

I'm hoping that when I do get another opportunity, I can make the most of it, like I've tried to in the past. And I won't be rusty from lack of practice since I have been trying to work on things at home. If anybody out there has a good opportunity for me, please email me. I am located in Portland, Oregon, but I would be willing to relocate for the right thing.

Thanks for hearing me out.
Sorry about the length of this post, and for it's rant-like nature.

Jim McGowan
mcgowajm@hotmail.com

[magnetglue]

I am a freelance engineer with close ties to many studios in LA. I have experienced being an intern, runner, staff assistant, freelance assistant, etc. I have worked in various studios in LA, and I've noticed that certain studios have better staff than others, simply because of the way they hire people and whether they teach them a thing or two about work ethics and what is expected of them.

I used to get calls from this one studio all the time for assistant gigs. These days I've been busy with outside work so I couldn't help them out. One day I finally asked,

"Are you ever going to let your runners become assistants?"

To this, the studio manager replied,

"No. I don't trust them."

What?????? You don't trust your own runners?

Studio owners, please... Hire people who are motivated. Get rid of those who are wasting both your and his/her time. There are so many music-loving, well-motivated kids out there. Please give them a chance. If that's what you already do, then thanks. You all deserve to have the best staff you can get.

[mjau]

I was lucky enough to get invited by Mark Nevers to hang out with him for a few days in a big Nashville session (for the Palace Greatets Hits record)

Wow man, I'm jealous. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall for those sessions.

[magnetglue]

The other day I was helping our assistant fill out the recall sheets (I was doing Pro Tools engineering--I know, how fun). I was helping cos I was done with my stuff and he had a lot to write down. Then we asked one of the runners (maybe an intern?) to help out. He took the recall sheets, looked me in the eye, and said,

"You know that this is YOUR job and I'm doing it, right?"

...what?

[Johnny B]

"You know that this is YOUR job and I'm doing it, right?"

...what?

Wow. And I thought our student workers were unmotivated. They spend their entire shift on the Internet and refuse to do work, but they're not quite that cheeky...