An open question to the community..

[Wilkesin]

So i got an internship...nice place here in miami. I've done about two weeks of B.S. grunt work, gotten to know the owners, one freelancer, and the other "head" assistant engineer that is always around (there is no "house" engineer or course) pretty well. I like it there and I think they like me...

I even got to sit in on a mix session the first day! But since then there has been one, and i mean, one legit session (mix) at this place. The rest of the time has been spent cleaning up behind the constructrion guys who are renovating the place during the day and helping track down some ghetto hip-hop dudes who we cant get to pay.

Is this the state of the "industry" today? A nice room, SSL board, and mics worth more than my entire setup sit dormant for a month while chasing after thugged out clients for money, dealing with flaky "rappers" who dont show up on time (if at all) and having nothing else going on?

[wwittman]

Yes, exactly.
the problem IS from the top down.

There are fewer real studios.
Fewer BUSY studios amongst them.
Fewer staff engineers (if ANY) from whom to learn.
and so on...

[LVC_Jeff]

First off, this thread is a very interesting read.

Second, and most importantly, this fact: I have not been on a date in over a year. Why is that important you ask? Because last month, a girl asked me if I wanted to go see a movie with her that Friday. I told her, "Sorry, I can't...I have to do set-up planning and soundcheck for ALB for their show Saturday night." (an on-campus band, the one in my sig)

That was probably really stupid of me, because I liked that girl, but it illustrates my point: Not all students/young people are apathetic and don't care about what we're doing. I won't argue with you if you say some are. Some kids in the program with me are....they just don't care and are satisfied with mediocrity. I am not.

[Snarky]

Jezzbus Professor, you're only 31??? You eloquence and wisdom had me thinking you were like 45 or some shit. WOWZERS.

Anyhoo, yea, I think you really gotta love this to do it. The dudes that are usually doin it to "be cool" learn pretty fast that it is a lot of hard work and psychology, and you often have to think of others before yourself. The lazy ones dont hang around long. But yea, the "traditional" studio is disappearing, and so will the traditonal intern.

Waitaminute though, I just thought of the last "interns" I've had helping me out. They couldn't pay attention long enough to patch the fucking drum kit. I had to keep telling them to stay focused, long enough to make it to the fucking preamps. Oh well. They get a little better everyday.

[syrupcore]

* EFFECTIVE WAYS FOR HIRING SMART: How to Predict Winners and Losers in the Incredibly Expensive People-Reading Game
* Hiring the Best: Manager's Guide to Effective Interviewing and Recruiting, Fifth Edition
* Hiring Great People

Some people work at hiring as long as others work on recording. Perhaps more studios should learn to respect the craft. Sure, I'm being a little sassy but only a little. Hiring is hard, I've totally fucked it up before. There a million people who want those internships - there's no reason to not end up with a person who fits your place.

[alissa]

i've interned at a few studios. and i suppose you could say i'm a semi permanent fixture in one now. but my experience has generally been that most studios are on their way to going out of business. there is generally little interest in training the underlings. and if there is it's mostly to use them for free labor until they get booted. don't get me wrong. the experience is meaningful. but at the same time, given that very few people are actually able to scrape an existence out of doing this, i've never gotten to the point where i'm willing to cut loose all the paying gigs to make myself openly available. though i will in moderation. i am very interested in engineering. but i am asian. and much less interested in financial suicide. at the same time, i am still finding ways to be involved. it's just that the game has changed. and so has the way that people are able to make themselves involved.[/list]

[@?,*???&?]

i've interned at a few studios. and i suppose you could say i'm a semi permanent fixture in one now. but my experience has generally been that most studios are on their way to going out of business. there is generally little interest in training the underlings. and if there is it's mostly to use them for free labor until they get booted. don't get me wrong. the experience is meaningful. but at the same time, given that very few people are actually able to scrape an existence out of doing this, i've never gotten to the point where i'm willing to cut loose all the paying gigs to make myself openly available. though i will in moderation. i am very interested in engineering. but i am asian. and much less interested in financial suicide. at the same time, i am still finding ways to be involved. it's just that the game has changed. and so has the way that people are able to make themselves involved.[/list]

Yes. The game has changed. If you have a large facility, it's because it's been around for 20+ years. New studios don't require the same investment up front, but at that the same time can't command the same day rates as those larger facilities. If the large facility has been run wisely, then the equipment is paid for. The large studios you see going out of business are those that did not release the boat anchor equipment tied into their lease payments. To succeed in this business today, one needs to maintain extremely low overhead because the commonality of everyone and their brother being able to make shitty records at home prevails.

[alissa]

agreed.

at the same time, given that that is the new reality, you are going to select for a different crowd to be the underlings at the big studios.

generally. as there's only room for a certain number of these bigger studios in any given community. and many of the studios who are thriving don't really take underlings. too many people getting burned on both sides of the equation. people who would be competent underlings will just as soon strike out on their own. esp. after they've endured a couple studio closings. and people who have been around for 20+ years are sick of training people.

[hiddendriveways]

I don't think the problem lies in the spirit of the young people, the problem lies in the people who run the studios.

If you've hired on kids that sit in front of Myspace all day that don't care about recording, then the problem is the person who hired the kid. You can't pick up a rock and hurl it 10 feet without hitting a person eager for an opportunity to learn the art of recording. If the kids are obsessed with Myspace, hire on someone in their 30's to do this work. Seriously. Problem solved.

[alissa]

kinda. cept someone in their 30's can probably get paid more doing something else.

[wwittman]

I don't think the problem lies in the spirit of the young people, the problem lies in the people who run the studios.

well that's right!

and not only becasue of WHO they hire, but because they are no longer really in the mentoring BUSINESS... there's no chain anymore.
No producers teaching engineers teaching assistants teaching dogsbodies...

it's ALL freelanced out, in most cases.

it might as well get outsourced to Bangalore.

[RoyMatthews]

I don't think the problem lies in the spirit of the young people, the problem lies in the people who run the studios.

and not only becasue of WHO they hire, but because they are no longer really in the mentoring BUSINESS... there's no chain anymore.
No producers teaching engineers teaching assistants teaching dogsbodies...

I agree and it's cyclical. I think studios have lost the professional attitude.
I'm the de facto 'head' engineer at a studio. The problem is it's so poorly managed that there have been maybe 5 outside engineers or producers who have worked here in the past 12 years. There's no way of learning new things. All the education is the result on inbreeding. So I think "Who am I to teach an intern? I barely know what I'm doing myself." And the other engineer here can't work the console. Can't route channels to the groups. How much can he teach?
Now if we had an intern with a good head on his shoulders I'd be happy to show them what I could. But with so few sessions there is no incentive for them to stay.
What it comes down to is a good studio owner should be smart enough to realize that interns can be an important part of their business growth and should invest in them as much as any piece of gear. Interns are view as disposable.

I'm rambling. My coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

[hiddendriveways]

I have a few friends that were once eager/passionate interns. They all worked their way up to assistant engineer/assistant mixer at large studios. They would be intricate in working in sessions with some of the biggest names in the industry...

Anyhow, they all left the profession. Why? Because the same studios that hired them and gave them a shot refused to pay them a reasonable salary. I met all of these guys while I worked in pro audio sales. They made more money working in retail stores. I mean, you have to expect that you're not going to make a ton of cash in music production, but the studios these guys worked at wouldn't pay them enough to simply keep afloat financially.

What do these young kids at these studios have to look forward to if they see their peers go down this slippery slope? The studios don't give a fuck about them, so they don't give a fuck about the studio.

[alissa]

the sad thing is i think this is happening in more fields than just the music business. it's just that the whole thing seems to be particularly accelerated in the music business. and the more time goes by, the more money is not filtering back to the people making music. i mean, frankly, apple is making most of the money there is to be made in music now. we need to figure out how to take the business back.

not that i have any answers.

[I'm Painting Again]

So I think "Who am I to teach an intern? I barely know what I'm doing myself."

The session I helped you on was sweet..you have a lot to teach actually..I wish I was 10 years younger and didn't have a real job..I'd be assisting you a bunch..I bet you could find someone good and local through this board if you asked..