singer songwriter-live recording

[unsound]

I'm recording a singer/songwriter live in a few weeks and need some advice. The recording will take place in a moderately noisy club. Any suggestions on Mics and techniques to use? I was thinking about different mic combinations and I'm worried about feedback if using the same mics to record and for the PA. Thus maybe I should double mic? If this is the case what type of pattern/mics should I use to avoid getting too much room noise. I'll probably place a mic away from the stage somewhere so I can mix in some room noise in between songs etc (Peter Frampton style!).

Any advice?

[konabuzz]

Hi...

I do this sort of thing fairly frequently and have found that you can seldom satisfactorily record a live act with mics in the room proper -- unless the acts in question are loud like a rockin' band. Unless your performer has everyone's rapt attention where not a whisper is heard from the crowd (unlikely), you'll get tremendous and distracting crowd noise -- even with hyper-cardoid mics.

I do a lot of "taping" of shows with my minidisc recorder and will use omnis or cardoid from the crowd if I have to, and deal with the "IS THAT TWO MICH GOLDENS?....TWO?.....THREE??" but my favorite method is to use the 57 and 58 that the performer is already using and just tap into the board --of course, ask...tape out, usually rca's, or the control room out (and hope the mixer doesn't "solo" a channel) or many boards have sub outs, or even direct outs per channel -- usually if two mics are used (vocal, guitar) I try to not go for the stereo mix out of the box, but try to put vocal on one track on the minidisc, and the guitar on the other. That way I can transfer it to the computer and mix to taste -- reverb, stereo pan guitar, etc. Also, it's dry off the sub outs, which is nice. Oh, and you'll get sufficient crowd noise/applause through the vocal mic, but not as obnoxiously as from the room proper.

Hope this helps.....good luck.

[JamesHE]

As a solo acoustic performer that has performed in noisy bars I can tell you, most of the time we can't even hear ourselves over the din of the crowd. Just take a DI from the guitar and use the live vocal mic. Maybe a stage mic to get a bit of the monitor mix if wanting a bit of room.

[unsound]

OK I'll definately run the normal live signals into a recorder. A friend here suggested the shot gun approach and using a crapload of mics in different positions. I like the image of the performer having to wind his way through a labyrinth of mics, stands, and chords to get to his stool. Nothing will do a bettter job of letting people know that the show is being recorded if he is surrounded by 20 mic stands?well maybe three anyway.

I know I'm probably setting myself up for phase cancellation everywhere but at least I might some other coloration options besides 58 and an acoustic guitar pickup.

Any other suggestions?

[unsound]

OK I just got through a test run night for thsi project. I started out with an SM58beta on vocals, one channel of acoustic guitar pickup through a DI, one channel of MK012 on guitar, and another MK012 in the room. I used Hamptone and VMP2 tube preamps and ran into a Tascam 2488. I used the effects out on this to feed the live sound.

The sm58 sounded pretty bad (suprise!) so after the first set I switched to an AKG 414 for vocals. Much improvement and the live sound was still very good without any feedback.

The DI also sounded thin but added some nice high end. I positioned the MK012 to get a good bassy sound and comped the high end with the DI. It turned out OK.

The "real" recording is supposed to occur in a few weeks. Any other recommendations or thoughts?

[trask]

OK I just got through a test run night for thsi project. I started out with an SM58beta on vocals, one channel of acoustic guitar pickup through a DI, one channel of MK012 on guitar, and another MK012 in the room. I used Hamptone and VMP2 tube preamps and ran into a Tascam 2488. I used the effects out on this to feed the live sound.

The sm58 sounded pretty bad (suprise!) so after the first set I switched to an AKG 414 for vocals. Much improvement and the live sound was still very good without any feedback.

The DI also sounded thin but added some nice high end. I positioned the MK012 to get a good bassy sound and comped the high end with the DI. It turned out OK.

The "real" recording is supposed to occur in a few weeks. Any other recommendations or thoughts?

Sounds like you're on the right track. Keep in mind that whatever else you may do now, will probably completely change on the day (the singer will want to be on the other side of the stage, use a different guitar, etc etc) so don't stress too much. You seem to have it covered where you can get decent sounds anyway.

[valleysound]

Hodge-podging a live recording setup is usually a recipe for poor results. I'd say rent a split snake with transformers and split the mics/DI with the FOH console. Go into a backroom that is quiet during soundcheck and make sure that the sounds you are getting from the mics are usable. The focus of the show should be the recording which means that you should have the final say what mics and how they should be placed! Place a stereo pair of mics in the room, mostly to catch the crowd noise.
Another suggestion is taking subgroups off the FOH console. I have done quite a few pretty good recordingsa this way, but I was also the FOH engineer. Good luck and tell us of the results!

[dirk_v]

If you're getting away with using a 414 and 012s without feeding back, then I say go with it. You can tap the acoustic DI as a 'just-in-case' track, but I find it never makes for a good recorded acoustic sound. Instead, I'd focus on getting a more balanced sound with your 012 so you don't have to rely on the DI. Also, it's good to hear that you're getting the feed right out of the Hamptone and into your recorder, then feeding the FOH from there. Ideal setup.

Just make sure you're not getting tons of wierd monitor bleed into your mics (maybe even look into in-ears?), and it sounds like you'll be able to get a great recording.

-dv