I don't usually ask this but...(kind of urgent)

[amishsixstringer]

I have a date to record a Viola tomorrow to fit into an acoustic rock track that also has a dark electric guitar in it. The whole feel of the song is very dark. I don't have the viola here to try anything, and the musician is payed hourly. I'm not really sure which mics I should put up as I've never really recorded a viola/violin before. Also, wondering about placement. The track needs something present and clear without being harsh and sticking waayyy out in a dark track. I have:

RE20, 421, AT4050 (2), CAD VSM1 (Tube LDC). These are what I've gotten narrowed down to. I think I'm going to do about 4 tracks to make it feel as if there are more players. Different mics per track? Stereo tracks with the player in a different chair each take? I'm just kinda lost, and I don't want to waste the band's money with me fiddling around (pun intended) with this viola track for 4 hours.


Thanks in advance!

Neil

[themagicmanmdt]

hard to say, actually. the 4050 seems like it might beef up and darken the viola a little bit...but, you always have to try and see. don't be afraid to track 2 or 3 mics (if you have the room), and just keep the ones that end up working the best upon mixing. or, blend the mics together, and pan them to taste!

[JohnDavisNYC]

i'd probably use a 4050 a few feet in front of the player, and maybe have them move around a bit for different passes.... one a bit close, one to the side a bit... just so the room sound changes...

have fun. if the player can play, the parts are well written, and your room is pretty decent, you shouldn't have any trouble at all.

john

[Garthplinko]

I think I'm going to do about 4 tracks to make it feel as if there are more players.

This reminds me of that clap track thread where a tape op'r did multiple takes of clap tracks to beef it up. His trick was to do one take in his room with everyone to the left of the mic, 2nd track was everyone in the center, 3rd was everyone to the right, etc....the idea being that the sound reflections give the feel of 12 guys around the mics clapping instead 4 moving 3 times. I thought this was a really interesting idea and used it to beef up some gang vocal tracks on a Dropkick Murphys style punk band that came in here.

I would think you could use this technique to simulate more violas playing in different spots in the room - even to greater effect if you were to do the 2 4050s in stereo.

Or I could probably just have said "ditto for what Toaster said"

[tommy]

Do you have any ribbon mics? If so use it and place it overhead above the instrument about 2 to 3 feet. With the selection of mics you mentioned, I would use one of the condensers. The least bright of the 2. Also, If you are multing the viola, ask the player if he or she would like to hear each pass as you mult. More than likely he or she wont want to. Especially if the part/s are not harmonies. Come mix time, say you have a mult of 3 violas playing the same melody (no harmonies). You are going to want one viola track to be the dominant one. Then the 2nd one much lower (maybe half), then the 3rd one lower still (maybe a 1/4 or 1/3). Having 3 mults of the same viola part up even steven will more than likely sound chorusy and sloppy. As for panning, I would (generally speaking) keep the panning kind of narrow but whatever sounds good for the song in your case is king.

[mertmo]

If you are multing the viola, ask the player if he or she would like to hear each pass as you mult. More than likely he or she wont want to. Especially if the part/s are not harmonies.

Good suggestion.

[drumsound]

If you have a Stedman N90 around try it. I recorded a good friend from college many years ago and she really loved the N90 over the other mics we tried that day.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

i would put up both 4050s in cardioid, maybe a foot away, one about where the neck meets the body and the other down by the bridge/ f hole. check phase and go. or maybe have one close and the other one back aways in omni, probably on the floor to start...

ask the player. that's what i do if i have something i've not recorded before. they've always had suggestions. have them walk around the room and find a spot where they think it sounds best, go from there...

[Garthplinko]

ask the player. that's what i do if i have something i've not recorded before. they've always had suggestions. have them walk around the room and find a spot where they think it sounds best, go from there...

Excellent idea - I had a cello player in here who had a lot to say about his tone. We found a sweet spot w/ an SM81 about 2 feet in front of his bridge and off just a bit towards the f hole.

I usually tend to choose a more neutral mic for instruments I'm less familiar with first thinking that it will capture more of a natural sound of the instrument. I could be wrong in assuming that though.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

makes sense to me. that and just listening to the thing in the room and going from there...

[tommy]

For most bowed strings, I like using mics that have a good reach to them along with a preamps with TONS of gain. Coles or 77dxs come to mind. This allows me to get the mic a little further away which seems to help keep the dynamics of the instrument a lot more managable yet natural. It can also de-emphasizes the screetchy bowed thing. Close micing strings can be cool too but if you do, a good invisible sounding compressor could come in handy.

[wardshorsehead]

Do you have any ribbon mics? If so use it and place it overhead above the instrument about 2 to 3 feet. With the selection of mics you mentioned, I would use one of the condensers. The least bright of the 2. Also, If you are multing the viola, ask the player if he or she would like to hear each pass as you mult. More than likely he or she wont want to. Especially if the part/s are not harmonies. Come mix time, say you have a mult of 3 violas playing the same melody (no harmonies). You are going to want one viola track to be the dominant one. Then the 2nd one much lower (maybe half), then the 3rd one lower still (maybe a 1/4 or 1/3). Having 3 mults of the same viola part up even steven will more than likely sound chorusy and sloppy. As for panning, I would (generally speaking) keep the panning kind of narrow but whatever sounds good for the song in your case is king.

if you are trying to get the vibe of a string section, i wouldn't advise having all the parts be the same. you'd rarely find a section playing all parts in unison...maybe 2.

i'd record the dominant part in stereo using the 4050s in a M-S configuration. then i'd set up one 4050 in omni, and have the player transpose up the part to ape a violin line. then again, with the mic in omni, have the player play the harmony / counterpoint lines. that gives you six tracks - the stereo M-S (3), and the three omnis. I'd adjust the width of the S to complement the other tracks. Use a little panning of the omnis to give them space in the part. eq some of the low end out of the faux violin part. i'd then mix the section to stereo with a light bit of compression to glue it all. the omnis should give enough room that you shouldn't need to fake any room with the verb.

good luck, strings are fun with a good player.

[tommy]

f you are trying to get the vibe of a string section, i wouldn't advise having all the parts be the same. you'd rarely find a section playing all parts in unison...maybe 2.

Indeed. I wasnt thinking in terms a string section but more of a reinforced (via the unison mults) viola part giving the impression of a single viola but reinforced a bit.

[hughindigo]

I'm a classically trained violinist/violist as well as a luthier. When I'm recording myself and want to make it sound like I'm a whole section I vary my technique (and sometimes use a 2 or 3 instrument). Particularly varying things like vibrato, bow speed and contact point. IMO a section will sound like a section not so much because of it's spatial placement, but because real sections are made up of players that all sound slightly different.

Also another +1 for the 4050. I start with the mic 4 to 5 feet away slightly above the F holes. Atleast that is what works for me. Each player and instrument is going to be different. Viola ranges a lot from rich and alto to bright and reedy.

[Doublehelix]

Also consider miking from over the player's bowing shoulder. I'd start with the 4050 and see what flies.