Help!: kick and floor tom setting off snare

[phantom power]

Everytime the drummer hits the floor tom or kick drum, it rattles the snares.

I really don't want to gate the snare track if at all possible. So what else can I do. Is it in the drum tuning? If so, do I change the tuning of the kick/ floor or the snare?

Are there any quick fixes? Tried tape on the strainer and it didn't help.

Any ideas? Thanks -AE

[MoreSpaceEcho]

you can try retuning the kick and tom. you can try tightening the snares a bunch, that'll definitely help but might wreck the tone of your snare. you can also not worry about it. snares rattle. does it sound overbearing in the context of a whole mix?

[phantom power]

I can handle it when it's the kick, but it totally gets in the way on floor tom stuff. It sounds like the floor tom and snare are getting hit at the same time. Same volume even. I wonder if maybe some kind of side chain 'strategery' would work. Never done any side chaining though.

-AE

[eeldip]

you could also try moving the drum set around the room. perhaps the snare is in some spot in the room that has sympathetic resonances...

but yea, retuning the floor tom is prolly the best solution.

you can usually cause snare drums to vibrate just thru singing the right note. find that note. untune the drums to that note.

[joeysimms]

Just punch the drummer as hard as you can, right in the guts.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

repeatedly, if necessary.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

and when you're done kicking the shit outta the drummer, definitely try to do whatever you can at the source, i.e. moving the drums, tuning them different, blablabla, rather than delving into any convoluted sidechain business.

[Marc Alan Goodman]

Yeah, it sounds like your problem is in the room and not in your tracking. The way the kit is set up / where it is in the room / how it's tuned should be able to fix your problem without trying to do anything weird or complicated. However if this is already tracked material and you're trying to adjust for it in the mix odds are it isn't just in the snare mic, so there's not too much you can do.

If it does seem to mostly be in the snare mic you can try gating the floor tom and then using the floor tom mic as the key input for a compressor on the snare (to duck the snare out of the way when it's hit). The downside of this is that when the drummer actually does hit the floor tom and snare at the same time the snare is gonna get pushed out of the way.

Good luck with it!
-marc

[DWKeithB]

Hello, being an engineer and a drummer, one thing that you can do that should take out most of the "buzz" is to flip the snare drum over so you're looking at the bottom of the drum. Now, just DE-tune the lugs a little on each side of the snares (4 lugs total). It won't take much, maybe 1/4 turn so it doesn't affect the overall sound of the snare and the playability doesn't change at all....
Then you can fine tune the toms and Kick. Give it a try, usually works great for me!

[phantom power]

Thanks guys! This is great.

I started tracking basics last weekend and will continue this Friday. So, some of it is already tracked. I'll try the gate/ side chained comp on that stuff and mess with tuning on the stuff this weekend.

The floor tom is kind of close to a wall right now, so it could be some wierd reflections. Didn't think of that.

Also, anyone ever used the Drawmer 241? The guys I'm tracking have one and I can tell that it works/sounds alot different than the others we have (161's, sc50, cl50e, 163x, and some RNC's). I just haven't unlocked it's secrets yet.

Anyway, thanks again. -AE

[8th_note]

You can also put a piece of cloth between the snare wires and the bottom head. By adjusting the thickness (folds), the width, and position of the cloth you can get a different degree of effect. This will certainly change the sound of the snare but it might be for the better. I've had several instances where we improved the sound of the kit by taking some of the crack and resonance out of the snare. Depending on the type of music a deader fatter snare can be better in the mix.

[TeReKeTe]

after you've moved the kit around the room (and LORD is that fun!):

besides de-tuning the lugs around the strainer, generally having your bottom snare head tighter will put the drum in a range that gets rid of a bunch of sympathetic vibrations.

you can usu. make up the difference by lowering the top head.

also: moongel on the top head will make the drum a little less sensitive overall, inculding sensitivity to sympathetic vibration.

making sure the snares lie flat and straight will work wonders in having predictable snare-y-ness (sp?). and some duct tape loops place right on top of the snare can help, as well.

alternatively, get the drummer to tune his kit and and write parts in such a way that this problem goes rather unnoticed. i mean, if you take away the floor tom... there goes the problem!

(said as a still-drumming drummer)[/img]

[cgarges]

Also, anyone ever used the Drawmer 241?

Yes. It can be very cool. I like it on guitars sometimes.

Is the snare buzz really annoying in context? if it is, that's one thing, but that's not usually something I spend much time sweating over. Most of the records I love have some evidence of this sort of thing (I consider it a part of Brendan O'Brien's drum sounds) and it actually reminds me of what a drumkit sounds like. Even better are records where the bass or guitar amp sets off the snares. Yeah!

If it is too much then re-tuning is the best solution. There's probably some sympathetic harmonic thing going on between the floor tom and snare, so if you can widen the gap a little, that will probably help. (Don't forget that the bottom head of the floor tom is a likely culprit.)

DWKeithB made a good suggestion about loosening the tension around the snare bed as a temporary solution. This actually make the bottom head tension uneven and decreases playing sensitivity, but will probably help in the quest to quell the snare buzz a bit.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[???????]

this is more a question than an answer. I've never had a problem with this sort of thing (it happens but I don't care/like it). But, hypothetically, what if someone were to use an expander and then a limiter on the snare mic?

[farview]

Possibilities

1. The snares are probably too loose.
2. the snare and floor tom are tuned to sympathetic notes, changing one of them will fix the problem
3. If the rattles are really the same volume as when he hits the snare, he obviously isn't hitting the snare hard enough when playing, beat the snot out of the drummer. Then, point and laugh.