that's so weird, and neat. God, recording bad drummers is a nightmare.BradG wrote:Oh man, yeah. I remember a few years back when I had my 2" studio with a Soundworkshop 34 board and was doing a lot more live work than I am now. Of course I had my whole technique for recording drums which worked well, pretty much every time, for the decent drummers I was tracking.
Then we booked this session drummer from LA, Chris someody, who was a friend of the artist I was working with. I started getting levels with him and I literally had to check and re-check THREE TIMES that I hadn't already processed the kik and snare, which were totally flat and uncompressed but sounded EXACTLY LIKE MY PROCESSED DRUM SOUND!
He was one of those guys that I'd forgotten about, who totally hit his drums with exactly the right strength to get the best sound, and EVERY TIME. So they sounded compressed and EQ'd, even thought they weren't.
God bless great drummers and god damn aweful ones.
fuck me, it IS the source!
I find adherence to fantasy troubling and unreasonable.
- I'm Painting Again
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j
Oh, I totally agree, I mean I listen to a lot of music with "bad drumming", but it's still a bitch to record.Toolshed of Death wrote:I think there is a certain charm to certain creative "less than skilled" drummers..
I find adherence to fantasy troubling and unreasonable.
- I'm Painting Again
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Re: j
It's not that hard to record just hard to make it sound like a good drummerjeddypoo wrote:Oh, I totally agree, I mean I listen to a lot of music with "bad drumming", but it's still a bitch to record.Toolshed of Death wrote:I think there is a certain charm to certain creative "less than skilled" drummers..
- wayne kerr
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Re: j
One of the best bass players I know does not know the names of the notes. If you're trying to teach him a new song, you just let him look at the neck for a few minutes while you're playing and he comes up with an absolutely mindblowing bassline. And he commits it instantly to memory. Stick some sheet music in front of him though and it may as well be Sanskrit.jeddypoo wrote:I mean mostly the former. I mean when someone can't form a chord.brad347 wrote:what does it mean to "not know chords?"
Does it mean "I can only play one note at a time"
or does it mean "I have no fucking clue what this chord I'm playing is called" (?)
If the former, then I can imagine it being accompanied by an unintentionally funny smug declaration: "Yeah... I'm a LEAD player!"
If the latter, then yes it can make life more difficult but it doesn't automatically rule out someone's having musicianship. I seem to recall a little guitar player who was very gifted, totally self-taught, but could not read music at all and did could not name a NOTE, much less a chord, he was playing according to our standard western system of music theory.
His name was Wes Montgomery.
For that matter, B.B. King never played chords at all.
But more than that, yeah, I mean a total ignorance as to what chords are what. I mean if I say "play dminor" and you play emajor open....I don't know. It's really not asking that much that people have some basic knowledge. You don't have to read or know theory to know basic open guitar chords. You really don't.
And B.B. King is one of the most overrated guitarists in history.
I can barely read music but I know a lot of theory, and have an exceptional ear. Not bragging, just saying- before I learned theory, I still had a really good ear and could pick out whatever I heard, but when I learned theory, I could do that instantaneously. The architecture was all there in my head. You don't HAVE to learn theory to be a good musician, but this lauding of musical primitivism for its own sake is as obnoxious as the lauding of freaking Neil Peart and other useless prog-rockers becaust they can play awful darn good. It all reminds me of people who try to show off by using big words all the time, and people who react really defensively when you use a big word when it's apropriate. I mean there's a middle ground between empty technical mastery and total ignorance as to the mechanics of one's craft.
The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.
-Hunter S. Thompson
-Hunter S. Thompson
j
hahaha. That's funny, I can only ever learn by listening. I hate it when people give me chord charts or tell me to watch their hands. I mean I can do both, but it's about 20 times faster just to listen. Yet, the bass player in my band is the same as yours- she prefers for me to play the bassline on guitar and watch and imitate, and she does it like instantaneously. It's so weird, I'd just rather listen.
I find adherence to fantasy troubling and unreasonable.
Re: j
Well put, but I also have noticed how much easier it is to get good sounds with a good drummer.Toolshed of Death wrote:It's not that hard to record just hard to make it sound like a good drummerjeddypoo wrote:Oh, I totally agree, I mean I listen to a lot of music with "bad drumming", but it's still a bitch to record.Toolshed of Death wrote:I think there is a certain charm to certain creative "less than skilled" drummers..
I find adherence to fantasy troubling and unreasonable.
- I'm Painting Again
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Re: j
no doubt!jeddypoo wrote:Well put, but I also have noticed how much easier it is to get good sounds with a good drummer.Toolshed of Death wrote:It's not that hard to record just hard to make it sound like a good drummerjeddypoo wrote:Oh, I totally agree, I mean I listen to a lot of music with "bad drumming", but it's still a bitch to record.Toolshed of Death wrote:I think there is a certain charm to certain creative "less than skilled" drummers..
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my number one priority in a recording session is to make the musician(s) feel as comfortable and capable as possible.... that's the secret trick to being a producer/recording engineer: session management.
there are only so many things you can do with a microphone... beyond that, you have to milk the best takes from the musicians you have in front of them. this means not only making them physically and sonically comfortable in the room, but also emotionally comfortable with the takes. if you get a self-concious vocalist -- you're going to wind up with half-ass takes; which will simply snowball. but if you can find a way to play of the bad takes, and message the ego of the the talent, you can put the confidence into the performance and on to the tape.
and really, i can't do my job well if the performance isn't there.
there are only so many things you can do with a microphone... beyond that, you have to milk the best takes from the musicians you have in front of them. this means not only making them physically and sonically comfortable in the room, but also emotionally comfortable with the takes. if you get a self-concious vocalist -- you're going to wind up with half-ass takes; which will simply snowball. but if you can find a way to play of the bad takes, and message the ego of the the talent, you can put the confidence into the performance and on to the tape.
and really, i can't do my job well if the performance isn't there.
- beatlefan1970
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re: fuck me, it IS the source
Five, no wait, seven-year-old thread? I'm in. Learning Moment for me: recording a fiddle player--kind of like the above sax player, total pro. Real musician, you know? Not a cultural ambassador wielding a guitar or something. I mean, the guy reads music! Same kind of deal--never heard the song, first take was amazing, second take mind-blowingly perfect. I'd brought two mics to try in the room, and set one up in a traditional spot, leaving the other one on a stand, to try in case mic A didn't do it. It took maybe ten seconds to get a good sound from Mic A, I forgot about the other one, and away we went. Two takes, bam, done, everyone heads home. As I'm straightening up after the session, I realize I'd mislabeled things and the mic we used was the one I'd left pointing at dude's foot. I tracked his FOOT and he still sounded great. Elating as a recordist. Depressing as a musician.
- Gregg Juke
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I bid you, RISE! RIIISSSSEEEE!!!!!
OK, let's comment on things people that aren't even here anymore said. I'm in.
>>>>And B.B. King is one of the most overrated guitarists in history.<<<<
Perhaps. But this statement (see above) is certainly one of the most boldly smug, patently-wrongly overly self-confident and self-aggrandizing, subjective things said in history.
See? Isn't hyperbole fun?
Over-rated, under-rated, great, awful, good, and bad are very subjective terms when it comes to the arts. But there's something to be said for a nearly 7-decade recording and performing career that transforms one into a household name that is synonymous for many people with a genre of music and an entire art form.
The proof is in BB's pudding. Who the %$#@#$&&* are you?
GJ
>>>>And B.B. King is one of the most overrated guitarists in history.<<<<
Perhaps. But this statement (see above) is certainly one of the most boldly smug, patently-wrongly overly self-confident and self-aggrandizing, subjective things said in history.
See? Isn't hyperbole fun?
Over-rated, under-rated, great, awful, good, and bad are very subjective terms when it comes to the arts. But there's something to be said for a nearly 7-decade recording and performing career that transforms one into a household name that is synonymous for many people with a genre of music and an entire art form.
The proof is in BB's pudding. Who the %$#@#$&&* are you?
GJ
whoa
time travel on the internet. I didn't realize this thing was BACK!
I find adherence to fantasy troubling and unreasonable.
- beatlefan1970
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Apologies!
Shit. I did not do my homework--didn't mean for that bored-at-work ramble to be of any interest to anyone other than if stumbling across it. Sorry if I clogged any in-boxes with notifications. I love BB King, though.
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