good pencil mics?

themagicmanmdt · Post by **themagicmanmdt** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:39 pm

so, i'm now at the point where I want to upgrade the MXL603S pair that I have. i love everything about them, but the highs are a little too boosted, and the noise floor isn't low enough - plus, they run pretty hot.

so, i've decided it's all or nothing, and I'm wanting to invest in a great pair of pencil mics. from reviews i've read, the neumann km184 seems like what i need - something without boosted highs, are relatively flat, but still have a slight character. i was going to grab a really nice pair of km 86i's on ebay, but i can't spend 2400! i'm thinking of no more than 1500. i don't care about name, i just want them to sound good.

any kind - tube or FET or etc.

what have you guys found to be fantastic?

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:51 pm

I would certainly say that the KM184s have "boosted highs." They seem pretty bright to me under most circumstances.

KM84s, while bright, are far more pleasant to my ears. The KM86s are very similar, but with multiple polar patterns.

The small diaphragm mics that I have used and would consider closer to flat would be the Shure KSM141, Avenson STO-2, Schoeps 221B and the later solid state ones (the CMC60 or something?), and Sony 535/536.

A few other small diaphragm mics that I would call bright, but pleasantly so would include the Gefell M582, Audio Technica 4051, 4031, Oktava MC/MK012, AKG 451, C60, Neumann U64, KM 54, SM2, Earthworks TC30k, and the Altec 95A, 175, and 165. There's probably a bunch of others I'm forgetting. The AT 4051 are some of my favorite currently-made small diaphragm condensers for getting detail and clarity and the Oktavas are astoundingly good microphones, especially in terms of distance sensitivity and quiet output electronics.

Last week, I played in a session where the engineer used some relatively new SE small diaphragm condensers that sounded pretty great as drum overheads for a very fat and dry 70s drum sound.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Shawn Simmons · Post by **Shawn Simmons** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:17 pm

Check out the new Chameleon Labs TS-1 Tube mics. They are pretty sweet and relatively cheap too. Kind of dark but smooth.

I haven't used any KM-84's that I've loved. I think they vary wildly. KM-184's are nice. I don't love them. Josephson C-42's are ok. Again, don't love them. DPA (B&K) 4011's are the shit but they're expensive.

I'm Painting Again · Post by **I'm Painting Again** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:27 pm

Check out the MBHO mics..

http://www.atlasproaudio.com/mbho.html

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:20 pm

I own a nice setup of MBHO mics, two different preamp bodies (a pair each of 603s, and 648s) and a pair each of the 100-LK, 200-N, and 800-A capsules. I use them all the time, they are fabulous, and I'd like to add some of the large capsules to the kit.
But they are spendy.
I also have four AT-4051s along with an extra pair of the 4049-EL and 4053-EL capsules so I have cardioid, omni, and hyper for one pair of the four mics. I use those mics on almost every session for one thing or another. And price wise, that full set probably lands uner the $2k mark.

I haven't used the Neumann KM-18x mics, so I can't say where they would land by comparison other than deeper in your wallet. If it were me, and I was adding my first good set while staying within a budget, I would aim to end up with a pair of omnis, and a pair of caridoids for that price range. I might opt for something like omnis from Audio Technica and a pair of AKG 451b for the cardioids.

-Jeremy

themagicmanmdt · Post by **themagicmanmdt** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:11 pm

Shawn1272 wrote:Check out the new Chameleon Labs TS-1 Tube mics. They are pretty sweet and relatively cheap too. Kind of dark but smooth.

I haven't used any KM-84's that I've loved. I think they vary wildly. KM-184's are nice. I don't love them. Josephson C-42's are ok. Again, don't love them. DPA (B&K) 4011's are the shit but they're expensive.

Wow. They look good, and the reviews are nice - I can say that this is a really strong contender.

I heard the AT's were really bright, though....

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:29 pm

I definitely don't find the AT-4051 to be bright. I've always found them to have a subtle sweetness that is just perfect for so many sources.
But in the end you are the guy who needs to use the mic, and you have to pick something that will suit the sources you are hoping to record.

which begs the question, what are you recording with your mics?

-Jeremy

themagicmanmdt · Post by **themagicmanmdt** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:23 pm

mainly using them as drum overheads, but I'd also like the well-roundedness that would allow them to record guitar amps also.

if outside music of sounds is needed, then I can say I enjoy both the sound of the drums on Elephant by The White Stripes (which I heard were coles 4038('s)'? I also like the slight briskness that Wilco had on the kits in Yankee Hotel Foxtrot.

nestle · Post by **nestle** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:08 am

SM81's can be useful and are very flat.
I do have a pair of the KM184's I bought on ebay for 900 bucks. People here seem to really dislike them but maybe because I've never used the 84's they seem cool to me. I like em'.
odd ball cheapo mic is the B5 from behringer, you get a free omni cap with it. I like this cheep mic alot, especially for thing like 12 strings with the omni cap stuck right in the sound hole or hihats. Most of the behringer crap I don't care for but this mic is an exception. The AT is an electret mic I think-

getreel · Post by **getreel** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:39 am

My personal choices are AT Pro37r or Shure SM81. Both are clean sounding mics for overheads. The Pro37r's sound great on acoustic stringed instruments too. The SM 81s have a modern sound and IMO are not as good for overheads if you plan to squash the snot out of them. Best to use LDC for that.

themagicmanmdt · Post by **themagicmanmdt** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:07 pm

Is it just me, or do most Shure products sound 'strange'? Indescribably so, actually. I can't pin my finger on it, I just haven't heard anything made by Shure that I liked.

The Chameleon Labs mics look great - and at that price? Something seems amiss - or could they just be the perfect price point?

I'm Painting Again · Post by **I'm Painting Again** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:26 pm

themagicmanmdt wrote:Is it just me, or do most Shure products sound 'strange'? Indescribably so, actually. I can't pin my finger on it, I just haven't heard anything made by Shure that I liked.

The Chameleon Labs mics look great - and at that price? Something seems amiss - or could they just be the perfect price point?

I myself would love to know for sure if those CL mics are awesome or not..

I had a pair of shure KSM 27's that I thought sounded great..I like the 57 & 58..I never noticed anything strange about their stuff..

I was thinking of picing up a pair of pencil mics too recently..

I still haven't decided which to go with..or if any at all..

I was looking at the ones used for "natural" recording..like the schoeps, MBHO, earthworks, B&K et al. because I figure I could do anything I want down the line to the signal so I would go with the most realistic ones..and then "sculpt" on the way out if need be..

standup · Post by **standup** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:55 pm

I have a pair of KM 184's, and they can be bright. Earlier this year another guy brought a pair of Josphson 64's (I think, the inexpensive-ish ones), and they sounded more natural on guitar and mandolin because they were less bright. They got used on overheads later, and sounded good.

I've thought about selling the KM 184's and getting Josephsons (might be a break-even deal), but haven't done anything about it.

I have some 604's around too, they're useful but are backups for whatever I haven't used the KM 184's on.

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:54 pm

I've heard from a lot of people that KM 184s are bright, and that many prefer KM 84s instead.

I don't have either. I have a pair of modified Audio-Technica AT4051/4049s (they have interchangeable capsules, so I have the cardioid and the omni capsules). I love them and use them for all the usual things that you use small diaphragm condensers for. They work great. Mine are modified, so they have hotter output and wider frequency range, but the stock ones are good.

I just got a pair of Avenson STO-2 microphones. Do these qualify as "pencil mics"? They're more like sphincterphones. They're omnis, sort of like Earthworks, very natural sounding, not bright....I dunno, I like 'em a lot. Before you balk at omnis,

I should really emphasize that I don't have the greatest acoustics in my home where I record (sure, I try and treat it, but you know, I'm recording loud drums in a small living room, and at some point, physics come into play! <g>), but despite that, I can get really great sounds with omnis, so don't dismiss these even if you have less-than-great acoustics.

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:56 pm

Oh, I forgot...the Avenson STo-2s are US$550. For the pair.

Message Board

good pencil mics?

good pencil mics?

Who is online