Setting up Amps for live recording

[pumadrum]

I am going to be doing a thrash punk band. I have never recorded live, and I want to give it a try.

I am well-versed at using a hyper-cardioid to reject sound, but I would like some tips on actually setting up the amps/players in the room.

Thanks very much.

[I'm Painting Again]

make sure the "play to the room"..set it up like they where playing a show in the room put mics on the stuff..make sure the sounds fit together out of the speakers or phones by setting and choosing them well..make sure they understand how to play to the room..be pleasantly surprised by a natural real live recording..

[pumadrum]

How would I set up a bass amp such that it doesnt leak into the drum OH directionally. Should I line it up with the middle of the drumset?

I know I can use a DI, then reamp, but I might not be using headphones (At the band's request).

PS does anyone have any pics of the King's of Leon sessions. Thanx.

[tonewoods]

I'd give some serious thought to the choosing of room mics, and maybe run a shootout to find a set that works well for you for that particular band...

I usually use a pair of Altec Coke Bottles, and love them for that purpose....

I wind up using the Altecs for a good percentage of the final mix and the close mics for sweetening, so their setup is pretty critical...

Make sure that the amps reside in the room in about the same place that they are going to reside in the mix...
I.E., if there are 2 guitar players and you plan to seperate them in the mix, make sure their amps are as far away from each other as possible in the room...

Stuff like that...

[I'm Painting Again]

How would I set up a bass amp such that it doesnt leak into the drum OH directionally. Should I line it up with the middle of the drumset?

I know I can use a DI, then reamp, but I might not be using headphones (At the band's request).

You can't unless you isolate it..you could minimize bleed by "goboing" around the drums, bass & guitars though..or playing with the volume of the instruments..the bleed often works out to be just fine..you just HAVE to get those sounds to go down more or less "pre-mixed"..at least that is how I handle it..

what kind of room are you in?

[tonewoods]

"How would I set up a bass amp such that it doesnt leak into the drum OH directionally."

I've had good luck using a single Coles 4038 as an OH, and making sure the bass amp resides near the null of the figure-8 OH, and pointed so the drummer can get a good listen...

It's absolutely amazing to me how that Coles rejects the other stuff going on in the room--even medium sized loud amps...
How does it do that?

"....but I might not be using headphones"

Good call....
Or at least that's where I'm at these days....

[I'm Painting Again]

also good call on the mic positioning that would be a key method of controling what picks up what..

[pumadrum]

I appreciate the answers that are being provided. I understand the concept of using the mic's rejection to minimimize bleed.

I am more curious about where to physically position the amps in relation to the drums to help out too.

I will mos def be using some sort of gobo.

Thanks

[GooberNumber9]

Here's how I like to do "live" recordings (like in a practice space).

I ask the band to set up "in the round" where they are all in a circle facing each other. Drums go in a corner. Bass amp goes on the opposite side of the circle of instruments from the drums. This is assuming you want the bass to be panned center. If not, set the bass amp on whatever side you want it on. Then arrange the other instruments on either side of the circle like you might want to pan them in the mix.

Once you're mixing, things will sound best (probably) if you pan them to match up with how they were set up (take notes if you think you'll need them). You could try panning opposite to see if you get a different sound.

Also, you can try using hypercardiods for the drum overheads, but you have to be really careful about how you place and aim them, and that only really works on smaller drum kits.

Hopefully the band can record without vocals and you can overdub them later. If not, see if you can get them to use headphones for the vocals and put the vocalist as far away as possible.

Have fun!

Todd Wilcox

[syrupcore]

garges wrote something once that made me slap my head really really hard: goboing a drumset to keep it out of the bass amp is absurd. better to gobo the bass amp mic. I know you're asking about the other direction but it's good general strategy for goboing.

toolshed hit on something that's worked for me: using volume. turn the bass amp down to as low as is acceptable to the band. you can turn it up later.

[dirk_v]

I saw a cool trick in SOS a few months ago where a guitar amp was actually faced away from the player, facing a treated wall and a few mics. Of course, for something like that to work, you come back to volume being a key factor.

-dv

[syrupcore]

use the amp as a baffle if you can get levels worked out. problem is the drummer usually wants to hear the bass player really well. maybe one can on one ear of the drummer?

the best answer is probably going to come from playing bass through an amp (on a dolly) and moving it all around the room while monitoring the drum overhead. a prerecorded bass track through that amp with someone else moving it around while you're in the control room would be easiest. No one here knows your room/mics/bass player/drum position/blah. general answers aplenty in the archives but they'll only tell you what you probably already know and you'll need to experiment anyway.

[pumadrum]

That is exactly the type of suggestions that I am looking for. Thank you very much.

I happen to have an extra dolly.

[Kyle]

syrupcore, that dolly idea is brilliant!

you just made me slap my head.