what software are you using for burning your bounced files?

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Planetariumrecording
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Post by Planetariumrecording » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:55 pm

Mark Alan Miller wrote:
And, of course, one should always send data files on CD-R, not audio discs, to mastering. Data files have error correction. Audio CDs don't, when it comes to the actual audio data.
Can you talk about this a little more. You burn a data cd in jam?

Thanks.

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Post by Snarky » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:57 pm

Can you drop track ID's and stuff in Jam? Does it have like a Waveform view? I liked CD architect, but it was for my pc. Does Jam do what CD architect does?
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Post by Mark Alan Miller » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:47 am

Jam is a RedBook CD authoring program. Audio CDs only, and does all the track timing, crossfading and PQ editing that CD Architecht does.
As it requires Toast as it's host platform, one can burn data discs with Toast with the package.

It looks that there is a nice waveform view in Toast with Jam 6. Hit the Roxio site.

Now, regarding burning data discs to send to mastering, one should send, usually, the unsequenced mixes as data files (these days usually 24 bit files, which of course can't be sent as an audio disc anyway.) As mentioned before, audio CDs have no real error correction, and thus are prone to really unreliable transfer of audio data. Data files have error correction.

Look at it this way, one minute of 16 bit 44.1 kHz audio (CD standard) takes up about 10MB of space. CD-R blanks that can hold 700MB of data can hold 80 minutes (800MB, right?) of music. So, where does that other 100MB go when burning data? Error correction. :)

So, burn RedBook audio CDs if you need to in something like Jam or CD Architecht, but if you're sending tracks to be worked on, not a final copy for duplication, use data files instead.
(And if you're making your own RedBook masters, be 100% sure you're making them exactly as you want the finished CDs to be - they will be basically exact copies of your master disc. Listen to it very carefully once down to make sure the burn was perfect, too...)
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Post by theblue1 » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:54 am

Mark Alan Miller wrote:
And, of course, one should always send data files on CD-R, not audio discs, to mastering. Data files have error correction. Audio CDs don't, when it comes to the actual audio data.
Actually, it's kind of the other way around -- but your advice is good, all the same. (Audio CD players will try to "correct" around disk reading errors.)

A CD-ROM (data disc) burn will fail (depending on your burner settings) if there is even a one bit error.

While more sophisticated burn software will let you compare the audio you've burned with your source files on an audio burn, consumer oriented audio CD software will blithely skip past errors that may cause your replication master to be rejected. (Some consumer software does not even allow you the replication-critical disc-at-once option.)

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Mark Alan Miller
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Post by Mark Alan Miller » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:02 am

theblue1 wrote:
Mark Alan Miller wrote:
And, of course, one should always send data files on CD-R, not audio discs, to mastering. Data files have error correction. Audio CDs don't, when it comes to the actual audio data.
Actually, it's kind of the other way around -- but your advice is good, all the same. (Audio CD players will try to "correct" around disk reading errors.)

A CD-ROM (data disc) burn will fail (depending on your burner settings) if there is even a one bit error.

While more sophisticated burn software will let you compare the audio you've burned with your source files on an audio burn, consumer oriented audio CD software will blithely skip past errors that may cause your replication master to be rejected. (Some consumer software does not even allow you the replication-critical disc-at-once option.)
While audio cd players and rippers will interpolate across errors to a degree, the results are not bit-accurate to the original file.
And while a data CD-R burned with an error could be of course, unreadable, one burned and verified properly and then later developiing minor issues can still be read due to the error correction. Sorry, but it's not the other way around. Audio
CD don't really have any inherent error correction data - merely schemes for playing back across unreadable bits with (theoretically) inaudible effects. RedBook wasn't designed for data delivery. CD-R data formats were piggy-backed onto the spec later on, adding parity and checksums and all that good stuff, making them reliable for delivery of things that cannot afford to have their data interpolated, like files and software.

But I see what you mean, one can play an audio CD that contains errors, up to a certain point, at least, but cannot use a data CD-R that is corrupted. Beyond a certain point at least.

Good info there, about the comparison utilities for an audio CD after the burn. One could assume then a rip of that audio immediately after a verified burn would be bit-accurate, but if the disc were to develop any errors later, there is no built-in error checking to correct back to a bit-perfect state, like there is with a data CD. Even data CDs that fail a verify might still be 100% readable because of the error correction. Might being the operative word, because if both a sector of data and it's corresponding error correction information are both corrupted, well, no dice.
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Post by theblue1 » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:19 am

Thanks for the correction!

And good point on CD-R deterioration, as well.

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Mark Alan Miller
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Post by Mark Alan Miller » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:24 am

theblue1 wrote:Thanks for the correction!

And good point on CD-R deterioration, as well.
Thanks for bringing up some interesting points! Because, in one perpsective, you were right on the money, regaring the usability of discs with corrupted data... good things to think about regarding the long-term usablity of different optical media formats.
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http://www.radio-valkyrie.com/ao/aoindex.htm - download the new record (free is an option!) or get it on CD.

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