HR824s- American vs. Chinese- Vent Here!

lightandmind · Post by **lightandmind** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:55 pm

Good post Tom. That being said, any suggestions as to how one might go about finding-out which monitor is right for themselves? I have no real access to mix on other monitors. Renting studio time at multiple locations only to try mixing on their set-up seems illogical, and when shopping- there's really not any mixing that can be done, only listening to recordings your familiar with, which, IMO, doesn't really give an accurite impression of a real-world mixing enviornment. Any suggestions? Anyone?

TV Lenny · Post by **TV Lenny** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:12 pm

Boy, that is a tuff one. I know just what your saying cause a few years ago, I was trying to do the same thing. As I'm sure all of us have. And I'll probably be doing it again in a year or so. The only thing I can say is we took a CD that my friend and I knew very well. (in our case it was Thriller

) and tried it on several monitors at various stores. Your right, it isn't going to be very accurate because of an uncontrolled listening environment. Plus, half of the guys showing us the monitors immediately cranked the hell out of them to impress us with volume. I would venture to say if your spending around $500 and up per monitor then you should be getting a pretty decent monitor. My first set was the Alesis M1's and while that was about all I could affort at the time, I was able to pull off some pretty good mixes once I got to know them.

Maybe you could arrange to "demo" a studio and bring in your CD to listen to their monitors. They might be willing to do that for free since it wouldn't take up much time. Especially if you reminded them that your looking at which studios are out there in your area to work in. I know this isn't much help. Hopefully some one else has more useful info! Good Luck

Tom

Huntlabs · Post by **Huntlabs** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:57 pm

Crap, I just wrote a nice long post and it hung when I previewed it and then, poof it was gone.... Take 2:

I just went to a local studio, Supernatural, and got to listen to some of my stuff on some Adam speakers. I decided that my mackie 824's were just to nice sounding in comparison. They left out this edge that was in the middle of the adams and other detail that just wasn't there in the 824's.

Then, today, I got an Apogee PSX-100 that I just bought of the old bay. I hooked up my left monitor to my Digi 001 DA and my right monitor, SPDIF to the PSX. Well the difference was nothing short of stunning. The DIGI DA sucks. The Apogee DA brought out all this clarity and detail. It made the Mackies sound a lot more like the Adams, not as good but a lot better.

So maybe I don't think my 824's suck as much as I think the DA converter on my 001 sucks. Even my 3/4 deaf father could hear the difference without my pointing it out to him.

dirk_v · Post by **dirk_v** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:12 am

Seems to me there are a lot of posts on this thread highlighting factors other than the monitor itself which affect how it sounds. I happen to be happy with my 824s for the most part; I've invested both in getting to know how what I hear on them is going to translate outsite my room, and in the room itself. Of course, monitoring is a personal thing, so YMMV.

If there are 824 users out there who find their speakers too 'smiley,' is anyone using the rear-panel controls to counteract this? just curious.

-dv

thedonwood · Post by **thedonwood** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:30 pm

If there are 824 users out there who find their speakers too 'smiley,' is anyone using the rear-panel controls to counteract this? just curious.

I have my 824's a couple inches from a wall and on Mopad's. So i have the room switch set to the corresponding mode. I can definitely say that the sound improved dramatically since Apogee replaced the MOTU 2408mkII as the DA.
Overall the sound is very tight and punchy and I am pleased with its slight smiley curve.

GooberNumber9 · Post by **GooberNumber9** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:02 pm

I'm a semi-happy HR824 user. They were pretty bad in the bass department until I put them on stands and Mo Pads. I have everything except the input level controls set to normal. I think learning how the monitors sound is better for me than trying to adjust them. I have noticed in recent months (as I've really developed my ear) that they are lacking in the upper mids. Usually this is helpful because when I can't hear the snare on the HR824s, I take it to the car and suddenly it's there. On the other hand, there are many things that sound fine on the HR824s that sound pretty bad elsewhere.

In the non-pro world (educational studios, friends' studios), I see a lot more HR824s around than anything else. To me an ideal situation when I'm away from my studio is a pair HR824s and a pair of almost anything else. That way I can work on something familiar and then check on something different.

Todd Wilcox

2121TrumbullAve · Post by **2121TrumbullAve** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:47 am

i guess the original poster's question will go unanswered.

i dig my chinese 624's - certainly not scooped and are definitey detailed. perhaps a bit too flattering, but long sessions without fatigue are posible.

i have to guess below 50hz but have become good at that by now.

they reveal to me that my mixes never sound as quality as commercial recordings, so i suppose they're doing their job.

thedonwood · Post by **thedonwood** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:43 am

2121TrumbullAve wrote:i guess the original poster's question will go unanswered.

How do you know if your speaks are Chinese or American?

lightandmind · Post by **lightandmind** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:09 pm

I have noticed in recent months (as I've really developed my ear) that they are lacking in the upper mids. Usually this is helpful because when I can't hear the snare on the HR824s, I take it to the car and suddenly it's there. On the other hand, there are many things that sound fine on the HR824s that sound pretty bad elsewhere.

Isn't that two bad things? Transfers that lie? How is it helpful? Please, explain-

GooberNumber9 · Post by **GooberNumber9** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:03 pm

It's only helpful in the sense of me thinking "Well, this mix is almost there except I can't hear the snare" then I find out that the snare is fine. I don't know, it makes sense in my little world. No one is paying me for my mixes (yet?).

I've done some work with NS-10s and I didn't find that they helped me make mixes that translate any better than the Mackies. Really the opposite because I know a lot about how my Mackies translate.

One thing that helped me with translation more than anything else is listening to a lot of mixes by pros that I really like on the Mackies and making mentals notes about how they sound. So, for example, if the overheads are very present on "Superunknown" on the Mackies, that means I might want to make sure the overheads on my mixes are just as present.

From that point of view it doesn't really matter much which monitors you are using as long as you learn their foibles.

Todd Wilcox

river · Post by **river** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:37 pm

I have noticed in recent months (as I've really developed my ear) that they are lacking in the upper mids.

How close to the side walls are your monitors? I have sidewall midrange absorbers to suck up early reflections (which affect the mids most of all) and I'm not having any problems with any portion of the midrange spectrum. I'm using some 1st generation 824's BTW, absolutely love them. My control room is fairly small, so I had to treat it with bass traps as well and be mindful not to listen at higher levels when mixing, but I get phenomenal translation from these speakers.

lightandmind · Post by **lightandmind** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:23 pm

Thanks to everyone for their excellent posts! I had to post this topic because of the lack of middleground and the mostly "love'em or hate'em" opinion of the 824s. I felt that there must be another major factor going unnoticed. Aside from different tastes and being accustomed to monitors of different styles, I feel that acoustics have ALOT to do with aquiring an accurite perception of how well the 824s translate, although, I'm still a bit unsure of my opinion of these. More comments are certainly appreciated. Thanks guys!

GooberNumber9 · Post by **GooberNumber9** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:29 pm

river wrote:
I have noticed in recent months (as I've really developed my ear) that they are lacking in the upper mids.
How close to the side walls are your monitors?

I'm eyeballing it at about four feet. I don't have any treatment up at this time. Once the holiday bonus comes in that will be ordered. I know my room has problems because I can hear the low end change when I walk around and I can very easily hear flutter echoes when people talk in here.

Maybe I've spoken too soon about the Mackies. I hope no one thinks I don't like my Mackies. They are mine and I'm happy with them. Would I consider Genelecs or something else if I had the money? Heck yes! But these guys aren't going anywhere for a long time. I'm more likely to add three 624s and a sub for surround than get rid of the Mackies.

It has been a long process for me of getting them set up right and learning how they sound. I've had them for seven years and they are just now really working out for me the way I want. I hope once the treatment is up I will really be able to improve my critical listening.

On another forum in a similar thread someone posted something to the effect of "We listen to music through boxes made of wood with paper cones. Pick a box you like and learn to work with it." Then George Massenburg replied "Good Post" (or something like that).

That thread killed any insecurity I had about my monitors, and reminded me that developing my critical listening is much more important than saving up for something else that I'd have to learn to listen on from scratch.

If you're wondering whether you should get Mackies, there's one fact that makes them different. As far as I can tell, nothing has a nominal low end down to 38 Hz in their price range. Whether you believe that figure or you plan to get a subwoofer or whatever, that to me is something that distinguishes them.

Todd Wilcox

lightandmind · Post by **lightandmind** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:22 pm

Anyone want to leave some comments about some of the more-noticable differences between the 824's and other common monitors?

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:07 am

lightandmind wrote:Anyone want to leave some comments about some of the more-noticable differences between the 824's and other common monitors?

Sure, there seems to be a giant, gaping hole between 1.8k and 3.8k compared to anything else I have ever worked on.

I dont "hate them," i just dont know them at all and I dont like "guessing" the crucial midrange. I would rather mix on auratones and "guess" the bottom and the top. Translation lives in the middle...

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