Oktavamod tube

[MichaelJoly]

I'm really trying to learn more about how different people hear the same comparison files and form such different opinions. Because, obviously each individual hears in these files a difference and says so.

Because I think it is possible, depending how two people have learned to listen - (what criteria they evaluate, context of their experience) for two people to evaluate the difference between two recordings and come to very different conclusions and both be right within the context of their experience.

AudioJunky - for the benefit of my ear training, could you describe in more detail how the U48 slams the 2500 to the ground? Because I've got my own set of criteria (and I suppose they could be blinders!) for evaluating mics and I'd like to learn more.

Hyde Maintenance - I'm not following you when you say a "more realistic comparison would be helpful". What would that test set up look like to you?

[AudioJunky]

I think it is pretty unfair to compair these two mics. It is like comparing the Berlin Philharmonic to a college orchestra! I've heard some great things about Oktavamod- and would love to see it compared to another mic within the price range! But either way... I left something out of that post- the U48 sounds killer, ON THAT GUY'S voice.

But anyways, regarding ear. I don't know what to tell you exactly. I'm a well trained musician- I've taught college courses and currently teach high school. My job is essentially to make human beings sound good playing instruments. My ears are very trained to hear articulation, balance, blend, etc. I'm not trying to brag, but basically I have to take crap and make it sound good... and when something pleases my ear it produces a very dramatic reaction.

The U48 - and I have to say, I have not heard a U47 in my life...and when I found out that the U48 was practically the same with some different patterns, I was excited to hear it... the U48 to me just sounds way less muffly. The articulation of the sound and clarity of the singer just gave me (And after hearing this I finally understood it!) a 3-dimensional picture of the voice. The mic just sounded more balanced and the highs of the U48 just sang to me, as where the Oktava mod just seemed a bit dull.

Here is where a huge variable comes in though- who is to say that the Oktava mic might not be great on another source? I'm sure there is something for it. Everything has a place.

It is pretty interesting to read this board- because you just never know when people describe certain things how much hype can go into simply reading the buzz about a certain product. I wish there were more resources online that revolved around training a sound engineer's ear to actually HEAR the differences. Right now, I basically have read "Behind The Glass" about 3 times... and now I'm simply noting what mics were used on what recordings. No wonder everyone wants a mic to sound like a C12, U47, etc. etc. You HEAR the difference.

Some websites are doing these things to help out- the listening sessions.. people posting clips here, etc. It is so important to hear these things. The best thing I can compare it to- it is like going to music school and not being trained to hear intervals.. I guess that is why people intern in studios and pay for recording school.. to hear these things.

While a sound visualizer might be something that gives us a picture- subtle things in sound can have huge differences. With all the technology we have today, you would think that a mod or a fancy inexpensive mic could come close- and I guess a lot do. But who knows what they used back then to make those originals. It is like my tenor sax- a Mark VI with a beautiful vibration to it. Saxophones try to copy this model like everyone tries to copy a U47- but apparently the Mark VI used a blend of metals that had a certain mixture that included WWII bombshell metal. You just are not going to copy a saxophone that probably has some kills on it's belt, period.

a bit of a tangent.. but oh well.

[mingus2112]

I'm also a little biased here. . .because I own m modded mkl-2500 and NOT a U48. . .but I think they sound damn close. Not 100% the same for sure, but neither one being better. If I had a U48 I certainly wouldn't dump it for anything.

I'd be really curious to hear a BLIND listening test where you didn't know which one was which. A few different lines by the same singer. Maybe 4 sets. Maybe the U48 would still win out. . .but would it win out EVERY time? (same singer on ALL tracks)

-James

[MichaelJoly]

I'd be really curious to hear a BLIND listening test where you didn't know which one was which.

Well, it just so happens I'm working on that. In the next few hours, maybe a day, I'll have some new U48 / 2500 files posted. These will be unidentified recordings made simultaneously from the same solo vocal take. There will be (in no particular order) OktavaMod MKL-2500 cathode follower circuit, Neumann U48 and OktavaMod MKL-2500 plate load circuit.

There will also be a comp'd vocal track made from the mics above plus an OktavaMod MK-319 Floating Dome PE.

I'll post the url as soon as the files are up and ready.

[mingus2112]

excellent Michael! any chance of some acoustic guitar as well? That's another thing I use my 2500 for.

-James

[hyde maintenance]

I guess what I'm saying is that I think to square the 2500 off against something in it's price range (even within $1000) would be a more fair comparison, and a more useful tool in detailing subtle differences in characteristics which may be valuable for someone looking for a new mic with a particular character.
Comparing the 2500 to the Neumann seems to simply point to the (understandable) disparity between the two mics and I don't know how useful that exercise is.
I'm all for respecting an individuals subjectivity in sound assessment, and I really do value people posting these types of things.
That being said, my subjective opinion is still that the 48 stomps all over the 2500

[Red Rockets Glare]

I have to say- the U48 seems to slam the 2500 to the ground to me... but maybe I'm just in the mood for hearing crisp, clear, nice sounding vocals like the u48 at this moment.

I'll second that opinion.

[JWL]

I personally would like to see a blind listening test done, with the mics placed in the same position and capturing the same performance, and generically named files comparing the results, followed by a round of commentary on 'file a' and 'file b'.

Only after that, would it be revealed which is file a and which is file b.

Of course we'd need an unattached, impartial person to coordinate the files and/or the recordings.

[MichaelJoly]

New U48 / MKL-2500 files are up:

http://oktavamod.com/audio.html#henry

Please accept them from me in lieu of an unattached, impartial person
But I can tell you that you'll hear one performance captured by all three mics that were placed very close to each other. The singer was back a bit more than we would normally use for close vocal mic'ing, but the idea was to present each mic with the same sound source. So you won't hear a big proximity effect in these files.

I edited out the the artist's slate identifying which mic was which.

[xhavepatiencex]

thank you for posting the clips, as i have been thinking about getting a mic modded, I like the first vocal clip the best, which ever mic that is, it has more clarity, and not so... tubby? in the low end.

[strdsk]

Mike's really a very honest and amazingly talented guy folks, and I think that the power of the comparison lies in the fact that he's deliberately shooting out a high dollar Neumann against a very affordable Oktava modded out by him. He's showing us that we all can own something as good, if not better than, a microphone that we'd normally have to put a second mortgage on our house for...lol! After all, what would be the point in comparing an expensive mic to another expensive mic if we can't afford either? Neumann mics...beautiful! But they cost about 10 times as much as an Oktava! Do they sound ten times better? I really don't think so. It's great to read up on and study our audio heroes no doubt. But aren't we just conditioning ourselves into hearing with our eyes and internally built monetary gauges and not our ears?

[MichaelJoly]

There is now poll set up if you'd like to cast your votes:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/OktavaMod/polls

This is a Yahoo! Groups space, a little bit cumbersome (you have to login and a join the group) but offers a way to do anonymous polling without bothering the kind folks here at TOMB.

It looks like this:

Which vocal track is the Neumann U48?
*Vocal 1
*Vocal 2
*Vocal 3

Which vocal track is the OktavaMod MKL-2500 cathode follower?
*Vocal 1
*Vocal 2
*Vocal 3

Which vocal track is the OktavaMod MKL-2500 plate load?
*Vocal 1
*Vocal 2
*Vocal 3

You can cast one vote for each question. A running tally will be visible.

[hyde maintenance]

I get nothin' files when I try to play the blind test files. Can someone confirm that they are working?
I do get the two labeled solo vocal tests to play though- and I do need to admit that those are waaaay closer IMO than the first voice/guitar examples.
Has mic placement changed this time?

[PIJN]

I think it foolish for someone to say this is unfair testing, this is where it is at, period.

These all sound very good, slightly different, but good all the same time. I would also like to be know if there is any noise (self) level test done, I am sure a U-48 has much more noise as it much older mic.

Good sounding, and good to let people listen and pick, without big ego mouths. They are left with no bullets!!

[MichaelJoly]

Well the polling sample size is still too small to be conclusive, but so far all three mics have been selected as being the U48. A couple of golden-eared colleagues I regularly run things by for comment have been wrong as well. And one declined to state a postion

The files on my site have been downloaded a couple of hundred times since yesterday so I know people are listening - thanks for that.

Sorry the audition / voting process is a bit cumbersome. But if I could encourage a few more people to listen and vote we'd get a larger sample size, more definitive results and no doubt, more of that special brand of Tape Op conversation found here.

doh! just realized I could put the links to the files here and save you a step.

Vocal 1
Vocal 2
Vocal 3
Vocal 4

Vocal 1, 2, 3 are, in no particular order, 2500 cathode, U48, 2500 plate. Vocal 4 is a comp'd vocal from those three mics plus a modified MK-319

To download and save:

In Windows - Right click the link and select Save Target As
For the Mac - Hold CTRL, click the link, choose Save As

And once again you can vote here