First Impressions of the TOFT ATB - 16

Brent Casey · Post by **Brent Casey** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:28 pm

Raymond,

I worked on your console while it was here and enjoyed our conversations. On the way out, you mentioned that you were going to post on the TapeOp forum about the console. From reading your post, I think I may have misread our entire exchange, which to me seemed cordial. I did not know that you were walking out the door with such a feeling of dissatisfaction.
From what I knew of the situation, your ATB had recurrent fader problems and an issue with the level on channel 14. It is quite obvious to me what was at issue with the faders, but in the case of channel 14 - we have an amplifier with a gain that is set by an external resistor and the level controlled by a potentiometer. There should not be any fluctuations in the gain. The channel appeared to work fine. I certainly would not have left it in any other state.
Being that a console plays such a tactile, central role in your signal path, it's vital that it works properly. I completely understand how you feel. I have no patience when it comes to returning a piece of gear.
There is nothing that I can do to recover any lost time in your workflow, but I do have a keen interest in making sure that all ATBs out there are working properly and that people are happy. It matters to me on a personal level.
Also - I live off of Washington between Centinela and Lincoln. Had I known of the situation prior to you coming in, I would've been happy to swing by and pick up the console on my way here.

Regards,

Brent Casey
Design, Engineering
PMI Audio Group
877-563-6335

ChrisCo · Post by **ChrisCo** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:32 pm

I'm a little late here in responding, since many have weighed in on the situation. I've met Raymond in person, and he's a fantastic sales guy who has actively turned my attention to products that I may want to check out based upon my tastes and such. Not only that, but I'd vouch for him personally, and would trust that he wouldn't lie to get another board or that he's out of line when requesting that a company help him out.

That being said, I don't know that the TOMB should weigh in on whether or not Alan is a "dick" or not. Not to jump on that phrase, but that encapsulates the crux of the situation. Opinions being what they may, I think that this situation would be best handled by Raymond and Alan, without personal attacks from external people. It perpetuates the situation and Alan would be made to defend himself, rather than calm down and deal with his customer with the best interest of both parties. Raymond still has to get his board fixed, but if we're all calling Alan names, I'm not sure the issue will get rectified as it should.

Just MHO

sad iron · Post by **sad iron** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:45 pm

Red Rockets Glare wrote: I just felt that I should speak up about what is going on rather than continue to remain quiet about it.
I am glad I did speak up, now you all have a pretty good idea of what to expect should you encounter any problems.

I'm glad you spoke up as well. A lot of folks here are working on tight budgets and the Toft seems like the perfect board for smaller folks who can't afford to spend the cost of a mid-sized luxury sedan on a decent recording board. If you make the considerable investment and then lose work time and peace of mind in the process because the product fails you and you're treated poorly in person and then in public by the company you put your faith in...well, that's just a shame. I was excited about this board and enjoyed following Raymond's posts about it. I was really heavily considering it as a replacement when my A&H System 8 finally craps the bed, but now I would probably buy something used again.

I met some PMI folks at AES a few years back, maybe Alan himself, and they demoed the Toft channel strips for me and a friend and I was really impressed with the product and the people. Too bad this side of them has come to light.

Red Rockets Glare · Post by **Red Rockets Glare** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:54 pm

Hi Brent,

In my previous post I mentioned that there was one very caring person that helped me out while I was at the shop, and that was for sure you.
I was happy that we got the console fixed, and to have made a new contact at TOFT, but unsatisfied that I would most likely be back in the not too distant future.
I clearly have a glitchy board, and I would hope that is a rare thing, and I guess I really hoped that you guys valued my role as a very vocal and outspoken past supporter to go the extra mile. The fellow in the office that I spoke to basically shut me down before I even said five words.
I had asked in the past if it would be possible for David to stop by on his way home from Gardena to the Valley to take a look at my board, only to be told that it dosen't work like that.
The fact that you are offering to help me out with the transport of the console next time it glitches really makes me think that you should be the online pressence for your company, if not the only person folks talk to.

Cheers,
Raymond

If you wouldn't mind, could you email me and I will be sure to come to you directly next time I have a problem?
Raymar@UCLA.edu

Brent Casey wrote:Raymond,

I worked on your console while it was here and enjoyed our conversations. On the way out, you mentioned that you were going to post on the TapeOp forum about the console. From reading your post, I think I may have misread our entire exchange, which to me seemed cordial. I did not know that you were walking out the door with such a feeling of dissatisfaction.
From what I knew of the situation, your ATB had recurrent fader problems and an issue with the level on channel 14. It is quite obvious to me what was at issue with the faders, but in the case of channel 14 - we have an amplifier with a gain that is set by an external resistor and the level controlled by a potentiometer. There should not be any fluctuations in the gain. The channel appeared to work fine. I certainly would not have left it in any other state.
Being that a console plays such a tactile, central role in your signal path, it's vital that it works properly. I completely understand how you feel. I have no patience when it comes to returning a piece of gear.
There is nothing that I can do to recover any lost time in your workflow, but I do have a keen interest in making sure that all ATBs out there are working properly and that people are happy. It matters to me on a personal level.
Also - I live off of Washington between Centinela and Lincoln. Had I known of the situation prior to you coming in, I would've been happy to swing by and pick up the console on my way here.

Regards,

Brent Casey
Design, Engineering
PMI Audio Group
877-563-6335

drewbass · Post by **drewbass** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:54 pm

this is just the way the guy is. check out his first entry. i remember this well.

for the sake of his own company he should get offline.

yet another reason i'll never buy a thing from pmi. thanks for the affirmation.

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

roscoenyc · Post by **roscoenyc** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:15 pm

the printed word sticks around doesn't it!

JWL · Post by **JWL** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:46 pm

Yeah, this guy does seem kinda on the defensive, to say the least.

Having said that, I learned long ago not to infer tone from Teh Internets postings.

Maybe he's just from New York.... LOL

(yes that was a joke)

In a way, I'm glad to see it elsewhere, it suggests he's not really out to get raymond or anything.... just his mannerism I suppose.

Peace

Glory_Morris · Post by **Glory_Morris** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:47 pm

MORE NEWS.

I just read this whole topic start to finish and I want to know what's happening.

bannerj · Post by **bannerj** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:04 pm

there is a ton of posts on the toft board over on gearslutz. I decided to shy away from it after all hype. Makes more sense to use stuff that is less...um...controversial? You are safer with resale and longevity to go for more classic stuff. Well, at least on my dollar.

bantam · Post by **bantam** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:27 am

i don't know, i have an atb and its run fine (pilot program) for a year. i certainly woudn't be suprised if some cold solder joint spring up since the new rosh standard but the beauty of this board is through hole components and socketed amps. i just felt it was eaiser to get a new board that can be easily fixed than an old board that will probably need major work. size is a factor too, the atb16 is manageable and loaded with routing options. old board alternatives are typically huge.

Red Rockets Glare · Post by **Red Rockets Glare** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:20 am

I just wanted to stay on top of this a little in case anyone is thinking of dropping some money on an ATB. I think I mentioned that one of the channels (#14) is really low gain and has to be cranked to be equal to the output of the others, and my VU lights are out...but I have made many, many great records with this console in the past couple of years and feel like I've gotten my moneys worth from it.
I have been working a lot on a Trident TriMix at Hot Pie in Pasadena and MAN is it rife with problems, channel bleed, bad phantom, and crackly solo switches and pots to name just a few, so I suppose my mixing board is right in line. They honestly sound very similar though, so bravo TOFT.
I love the EQs on this board still, and use them all the time when I need something more musical than the Waves or Pultec plug-ins.
I have said in the past few posts that I wish I had bought a vintage board and had it restored, and I am sticking to that.
Cheers,
Raymond

RefD · Post by **RefD** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:19 am

*wonders why funky old MCI console at fave local studio continues kicking ass when they're supposed to be notorious*

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First Impressions of the TOFT ATB - 16

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