Recording Jazz Big Band

[AudioJunky]

I'm doing some recordings of a Jazz ensemble I teach specifically for a taped audition submission. I did one session already that included one LDC on the band, one LDC near the rhythm section, and then one out front for soloists.

I want to preserve, as much as possible- the balance the group creates in the room. For this reason, I definitely do not want mics on each section player, etc.

If anyone has experience recording big bands- please let me know.

[drumsound]

Maybe try a stereo pair in a nice sounding room.

[???????]

Good luck and let us know what you learn! I'm particularly curious on this one

[billiamwalker]

I'm doing some recordings of a Jazz ensemble I teach specifically for a taped audition submission. I did one session already that included one LDC on the band, one LDC near the rhythm section, and then one out front for soloists.

I want to preserve, as much as possible- the balance the group creates in the room. For this reason, I definitely do not want mics on each section player, etc.

If anyone has experience recording big bands- please let me know.

id suggest a pair of nice LDC stereo in a nice big room and then close mic the kick (for a little thump in the low end) and close mic the bass to get a little low end or else you're going to get kind of a hollow recording sound becasue there's no proximity in the low end.

and you might consider a snare mic (non gated... too harsh of course) on the snare to add a little dynamics to the rim shots (which are hard to pick up through room mics.)

[syrupcore]

I've never done that so ignore me but... If I had the time I'd read about different stereo micing techniques, pick the best for the group and the room (and the equipment available) and spend time finding the best sound with those two (or three) mics. Then listen back after a take or two. What's it missing? spot mic those instruments.

I can be a lazy ass engineer. different tunes might have different spot mic requirements. I tend to set and forget which makes for some mediocre recordings. I'd check after each tune (or type of tune). Or at least I'd say on a message board that I was going to check after each tune. ;)

will

[davedarling]

I've recorded a lot of big band stuff, and there are many different "right" ways.
One pretty simple way is:

Horns in a shallow semi circle -drums and bass in the back (piano as well if you have one)
one drum o/h - not too high, one bass mic, one mic per section (trumps/bones/winds) and one stereo pair out front. Make the stereo pair sound as good as you can, then use the individual mics for presence, and punch.

This is pretty old school, but very nice. Other optional mics would be -kick/stereo per section instead of singles, and a back room mic (only in a nice sounding room)

good luck - Dave Darling

[cgarges]

I've done two like this in the last six months. The first one involved the band setting up like they normally do in a concert hall and using a pair of mics on an ORTF pattern over the band, a pair inside the piano, a mic for soloists in front of the band, and a mic on the bass amp. There were a few balance problems, specifically with the band setup.

The next session involved setting the (same) band up in a complete circle and using a Blumlien pair in the center, in addition to a pair inside the piano and a mic on the bass amp. This setup was MUCH better, with much more clarity, depth, and flattering representation of the band. The band leader was much happier and we vowed to keep using this method for future recordings. It was an easy setup that took about 30 minutes and the session was recorded direct to 2-track.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[???????]

I saw photos inside a Bob Mintzer large ensemble record and they were recording the band in a circle as cgarges describes.

[LeedyGuy]

Sometimes I hear some weird things on Big Band recordings.

I hear reeds on the left and brass on the right. How the heck they could do that is beyond me. I think they set the band up in a V with the rhythm section on the middle and reeds on the left and brass on the right. I would think though that the band in that configuration would have trouble with balance and intonation and things like that. I think it was either the Carnegie Hall Jazz Band or Lincoln Center did that on their A Train version with the big piano solo in the beginning.

-Ken

[davedarling]

It's pretty common for big bands to set up with winds on the left, bones in the middle, and trumpets on right, with bass and drums behind. this works well to show the play between saxes, and trumpets in alot of swing charts.
I've tried the full circle a couple of times, and wasn't crazy about it. Not enough of a
stereo split for my taste. Works great for a smaller salvation army type thing, or
a string quartet.
Most of the swing stuff I do is pretty modern/seperated. RCA 44 or 77 on every horn, and stereo pair LDC out front - full mics on drums.

dave darling

[DupleMeter]

It really depends on whether you want an authentic big band sound or a more modern sound.

I like to start with 3 omnis across the front of the band (just behind the conductor's position). Basically divide the band into quarters and (from left to right) put the mics at the 1/4, 1/2 & 3/4 mark. Get the mics up high and use the height to balance the front/back relationship of the band. If the room just sounds bad, you can use cardioids instead of omnis - the omnis will give you much better low end response.

Then you're going to want to spot mic any weak instruments or sections. I like wide cardioids (sometimes called sub cardioids) for that, but just about any polar pattern will work. Just use the most neutral mics you have.

I don't mic the drum kit like a rock session - it's just wrong for that genre. The drums should come across as a single instrument - especially in jazz where the kick is used a lot more like a tom or snare and not simple to lay down "4 on the floor". At most, I may add OHs (probably a mono OH) - but never would I mic the kick & snare...and then, only if the drums where getting lost in the main array (and how many drummers do you know that don;t play loud enough?)

If done right, the band should balance itself and you will not hear every instrument at all times. The sections should ebb & flow with one another...adding the interest & dimension through the interplay of the instrumentalists.

Or you can mic it up like a modern recording session and kill all the interest & life of the performance...that's up to you.

[davedarling]

WOW Duple Meter - that's harsh.
"or you can mic it up like a modern recording session, and kill all the interest and life of the performance...that's up to you."

For my recordings ,it is up to me, and I choose not to be limited by narrowly
defined ideas about what's right or wrong. It's art man.

There are many ways to record a performance. I don't think in terms of wrong and right, it's a choice of how you want to present it to the listening audience.
I think old school recordings are lovely - and modern recordings have great punch and interest. I love (and record) both.
As far as killing the life of the performance with modern micing - I guess the same could be said for plugging in an electric guitar, instead of using an acoustic.
It's still the same band interacting on the same piece of music in the same space...
no matter how you choose to mic it.

happy new year - Dave Darling

[parlormusic]

I normally don't post an answer without actually having first-hand experience in the topic, but I'll make the exception this time because I can picture exactly how I would attemt a similar project

For old-school jazz and big band recording, it's probably best to take the minimalist approach. If I were to record a band in that genre, I would start with some mics up high and out front as if recording a choir. Omni mics if the room sounds really good, cardioid if not. The number of mics across the front depends on how wide of an area to be covered vs distance from the band. These will be the "meat & potatoes" of the overall recording.

In addition, I would use a single cardioid spot mic over each section - horns, reeds, drums etc. Upright bass should get one pointed near the lower end of the fingerboard between the bridge and f-hole, or mike the bass amp if elec bass is being used. These mics are for enhancement and balancing of the main ones across the front.

I have seen a few pictures of orchestra recording sessions and this is pretty much how they had things set up.

[matyas]

I'm going to be doing a big band recording soon, and I'm trying to decide how I want to do things. Right now, I'm kind of leaning towards something along the lines of what Chris was suggesting. I don't have enough inputs or mics to mic all the horns, plus the band specifically asked for a more minimaiist approach. The one thing I was wondering about was soloist mics - specifically if anyone advocating the "old-school" approach uses them. If you're only using a stereo pair or three mic setup for the horns, how do you handle horn solos? Do the players stand in place and just sort of play towards the mic array? What about sectional spot mics for solos?

[Bill @ Irie Lab]

Interesting and informative - its why TOMB is the BEST! I always learn something and generally get a laugh or two as well.

Era appropriate way to deal with featured instrument sections or soloists - have them step forward from the circle.

Bill