Cymbals and high hat played to lightly? Strange I know.

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Ryan Silva
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Cymbals and high hat played to lightly? Strange I know.

Post by Ryan Silva » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:55 am

The setup

Tama Starclassic 5 piece.

OH - 414 b-uls in omni
Snare Top- KSM 141
Snare Bottom - KSM 141
Kick - EV RE-20
Tom 1, 2 - Sen MD421
Floor Tom - GT66 (tube mic)

Mixing Question

I have never had a drummer know how to behave on the cymbals so well. I was elated when I realized that I didn't have to dampen the crash or do the "Drummer Talk" about dynamics. I just wasn't concerned about cymbal level, and because of this I forgot how to record someone with control.

My trouble is every time I increase the OH volume I pick up more snare than I would like. I tried running a slow attack and slow release, but I just got to much damn snare decay.

Any thoughts?

Thanks
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MoreSpaceEcho

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inflatable
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Post by inflatable » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:16 pm

Limit

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Gebo
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Post by Gebo » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:41 pm

Video tape this man, and give me a copy, so I can show it to all the drummers who come to record with me.
As it was in the begining, so shall it be in the end...

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:58 pm

use a FAST attack and release compressor on the overheads. set the threshold so it's only really grabbing the snare hits, which, if the guy played the way you say, should be way louder than everything else...

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Post by Marc Alan Goodman » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:24 pm

Space echo's got it. A slow attack and release should accentuate the snare (the compressor won't bring the level down until after the transient of the snare hit). By setting the attack and release pretty fast you should be able to control anything that happens suddenly while accentuating longer sounds like cymbals.

If it's a deeper sounding snare you could even put a sidechain with a lowpass on the compressor so that it only squashes down when the drums hit, not the cymbals.

Just watch out that you don't set them so fast that it sounds like the music is "pumping", or like the microphones are running back and forth towards the kit from across the room. Unless of course that's the effect you're looking for! It's definitely been used in a positive way before.

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Post by drumsound » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:28 pm

Also a little judicious EQ. Take out some of the snare frequencies and do a nice chelf on the cymbals.

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Post by JamesHE » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:54 pm

Duplicate (or mult) the tracks. Put an expander and severe hi and low pass filters on the duped / multed tracks so that it's like ALL SNARE all the time. flip the phase.

You'll think your brilliant for a few seconds, then you'll realize you just killed the mix. And then reach for a mutiband comp, which still kills the mix. Fuck it, just slam with a comp and be done.
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Post by RefD » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:30 pm

i saw this thread title and thought "is that even possible"?

yeah, please videotape this!
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Post by jmoose » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:07 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:use a FAST attack and release compressor on the overheads. set the threshold so it's only really grabbing the snare hits, which, if the guy played the way you say, should be way louder than everything else...
Indeed. Faster release times are the way to go...set it so the little gremlin gets outta the way FAST, before the cymbals come back. If you wanna be super kool with it, use a compressors sidechain and feed it with an EQ boosting the snares most dominate frequencys so it drives the gremlin EVEN harder,

Carving up the the overheads is another option too...find where the snares dominant and resonent frequencies are...and rip 'em outta there. Try adding some 'air' to the very top of the overheads too, like 10kHz...or better 12-16kHz. Just enough to open it up. Shevling or high passing around/below 250-400Hz might be an option worth considering...sweep it around...see what comes out.

See what the phase relationship is like too.

Maybe 'yer tastes have changed since tracking or the flip side would be better in the current context.
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Ryan Silva
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Post by Ryan Silva » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:28 pm

Thanks guys

Opps, did I say slow and slow on attack/release. Don't I feel sheepish, I meant fast and fast.

Did try to side-chain with broadband and low-band comps that gave me the best results. I was having trouble trying to just notch, and I think that was because I liked the bleed of the snare drum in the overheads.

Thanks for all the Help


Ryan
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Post by getreel » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:46 pm

If you wanna be super kool with it, use a compressors sidechain and feed it with an EQ boosting the snares most dominate frequencys so it drives the gremlin EVEN harder,
I have a comp that does this kind of thing by itself. It's an LA Audio CX2. It has two different ways it's work too. I'd have to look it up again to explain it, but it has a half button that splits the frequencies its compressing somehow. With the button out it acts like a built in EQ side chain. It's really crazy what you can do with it sometimes. You don't even have to be in a situation needing de-essing or anything to use it to shape the sound of the compression. you can change the character really well with this and it's so cool. I've found it strange that no one ever talks about these units since they are so cool.

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Post by jmoose » Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:12 am

LA Audio isn't all that common...I see it less then BSS and I don't see their stuff all that often to begin with. Doesn't make it any less choice though...
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