What drummers should know when you are recording them

[inflatable]

Dumbass wasn't meant as a harsh insult. In California we call each other dumbasses when we don't grok what anther person is experiencing. Naive is another way of saying it.

Ever watch that 70s show?

[MoreSpaceEcho]

If you aren't ready, don't tell them. Just start rolling and hope you can edit an intro from another take onto the keeper that you missed the beginning of.

of course.

my point is just that i think its equally amateur for a drummer or whoever to just assume that because they are playing their instrument its automatically being recorded. especially if you've already said 'wait for me to say go'. we're trying to work as a team here...ooh, bad sports analogy, lookout...it's not like a quarterback just assumes the rest of his team can read his mind, he counts the play in.

that said i totally agree with being as fast and transparent as possible, and having to wait to do another take while the engineer renamed files or whatever would be totally annoying. when the bands say 'mse are you ready' i say 'yep, rolling.' and of course if they just start jamming or whatever i'll record it. but if they are obviously just farting around, or figuring out a part, or screaming at each other, i'm not gonna record that. ok, the screaming i would...

[christiannokes]

Yeah, I see what your saying Inflatable. I could of explained what I was doing or just adjusted to what he was doing. I guess I am at fault for assuming that they might have been a little more on their toes with the whole process since I had to drive an hour to their house and was charging them nothing for the recording.

So what's cool (and why I value forums online) is that now I have a new perspective on it because of yours and other posts.

And...
I live in Northern California and I don't treat strangers with disrespect. Maybe your from a different part of CA or something. I don't see the connection.

Peace!

[cgarges]

since I had to drive an hour to their house and was charging them nothing for the recording.

That probably had something to do with why they weren't necessarily on their toes.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[DGoody]

I was waiting for something to divert me from getting beat up about the rimshot thing! HA ha

[MoreSpaceEcho]

hahaha, i was trying to pick a fight and you were being all polite and reasonable. jerk! did you like how i switched from arguing the drummer's POV to arguing the engineers?

[herodotus]

minor flamming between different elements of a kit are what destroy drum tracks, i'd say. if the right hand is keeping time on a cymbal, that kick NEEDs to fall on those beats. the hat played with the foot needs to hit at the same time as the snare...etc.

This is true but an oversimplification. Obviously if a hihat is playing straight eighth notes the kick should hit 1 right on the first eighth note.

But e.g. a proper sounding crash played on a cymbal shoulder actually gets hit slightly later than the kick. It doesn't sound later, but in a wave editor you can see that it actually is later.

Of course we are talking about thousandths of a second here.

I make a lot of acoustic drum loops, and slight timing 'mistakes' like this are the main reason why people buy such things. The perfect timing of a drum machine, which is available to anyone with a sequencer, just doesn't sound real, no matter how high end the samples might be.

Now, I realize this probably isn't what you were talking about, but I just thought it would be fun to complicate things a bit

[thethingwiththestuff]

yeah, i wouldn't argue with you at all. i definitely was thinking more about kicks and snares being slightly off and fighting each other though.

and re: your cymbal example......i never really noticed that, but its interesting. the thing is to me, that late-cymbal-that-is-actually-timely is so because the drummer chose to put it there, not because he just doesnt have the coordination down yet and it's a happy accident. drummers should be in control of how flammy/synchronous the hits are, for sure. just like pushing and dragging the beat should be intentional, not the result of just flailing one's arms about!

[drumsound]

minor flamming between different elements of a kit are what destroy drum tracks, i'd say. if the right hand is keeping time on a cymbal, that kick NEEDs to fall on those beats. the hat played with the foot needs to hit at the same time as the snare...etc.

This is true but an oversimplification. Obviously if a hihat is playing straight eighth notes the kick should hit 1 right on the first eighth note.

But e.g. a proper sounding crash played on a cymbal shoulder actually gets hit slightly later than the kick. It doesn't sound later, but in a wave editor you can see that it actually is later.

Of course we are talking about thousandths of a second here.

I make a lot of acoustic drum loops, and slight timing 'mistakes' like this are the main reason why people buy such things. The perfect timing of a drum machine, which is available to anyone with a sequencer, just doesn't sound real, no matter how high end the samples might be.

Now, I realize this probably isn't what you were talking about, but I just thought it would be fun to complicate things a bit

I think what you're experiencing there is that natural curve of a cymbal. It takes a tiny amount of time for the thing to really vget vibrating after it's hit. The larger and thincker the cymbal the more time it takes.

A good drummer is aware of this and when picking cymbals that is one of the things considered. If i'm playing a slow moody tune I migh use a cymbal the reacts slowly becauwse it can add to the drama. If I'm playing a up tempo pop song a slow to blossom cymbal might get in the way

[inflatable]

was charging them nothing for the recording.

So what's cool (and why I value forums online) is that now I have a new perspective on it because of yours and other posts.

And...
I live in Northern California and I don't treat strangers with disrespect. Maybe your from a different part of CA or something. I don't see the connection.

Peace!

If you aren't charging, all bets are off. Seriously thought, those spec gigs can lead to paying gigs, and the last thing I want is a reputation for being a dick.

I can see how you could have taken it as disrespect from the dumbass comment as I re-read it.